[09:12:22] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> The page https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Main_Page looks a bit short.
[09:13:08] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> What if a Wikipedia actually wants to change the title of its main page? How should one do it? I suspect that the guidance this page is not enough.
[09:13:56] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I can imagine that the following is needed:
[09:13:58] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Update https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translations&message=MediaWiki%3AMainpage%2Fhe
[09:14:20] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> (I mean, the translation of the message to that language.)
[09:14:26] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Update also https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translations&message=MediaWiki%3AMainpage-nstab%2Fhe
[09:15:14] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Wait until that change is deployed.
[09:15:21] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Look at Special:WhatLinksHere and update what's needed.
[09:16:03] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Does an admin have to move the current main page and its talk page? At which point should this be done — as early as possible, or after the messages are updated?
[09:16:25] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> And does anyone have to run any shell scripts to update any caches or anything of that kind?
[09:17:14] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> I think just editing local [[Mediawiki:Mainpage]] is enough to change
[09:17:54] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> IMHO, translatewiki should only be mentioned in case the current translation is wrong/incorrect. in most cases of main pages being moved, it is from one namespace to another, e.g. "Main Page" to "Wikipedia:Main Page", and that has nothing to do with Translatewiki of course.
[09:18:15] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Depends if you want the same page under new title or if you want another page to be main page (re @amire80: Does an admin have to move the current main page and its talk page? At which point should this be done — as early as possible, or after the messages are updated?)
[09:18:24] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Yes, in the case in which I'm talking about, it's probably incorrect (according to someone who knows the language).
[09:19:11] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Yeah, but if:
[09:19:11] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> 1. It's a "small" language, and there's a good reason to think that there are no other MediaWiki sites in it that would be broken by this change.
[09:19:13] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> 2. The translation in translatewiki is actually incorrect. (re @Thecladis: I think just editing local [[Mediawiki:Mainpage]] is enough to change)
[09:19:19] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Then it should probably be translatewiki.
[09:19:26] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> if you're making changes on translatewiki, you better move the page on WP/elsewhere as soon as possible (leaving a redirect, of course). because if the change is deployed and the main page isn't moved yet, everyone who clicks the main page will come to an empty page (re @amire80: Does an admin have to move the current main page and its talk page? At which point should this be done — as early as possible, or af
[09:19:33] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Also not necessarily an admin has to move. Main pages are often but not always fully protected (re @amire80: Does an admin have to move the current main page and its talk page? At which point should this be done — as early as possible, or after the messages are updated?)
[09:20:07] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Oh please don't give me ideas (re @Thecladis: Also not necessarily an admin has to move. Main pages are often but not always fully protected)
[09:20:13] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> I would avoid the “when to move” question by locally overriding the message and then doing the move immediately
[09:20:25] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> and then you can remove the local override later, when the translation update from tw.net is definitely deployed
[09:20:38] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> +1 (re @lucaswerkmeister: I would avoid the “when to move” question by locally overriding the message and then doing the move immediately)
[09:20:56] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> such as "use Amire80's global sysop rights to be bold and go over the 800+ wikis we have and protect all the main pages that aren't protected yet". (re @amire80: Oh please don't give me ideas)
[09:21:01] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> 1 is still dubious unless 2 is also true (re @amire80: Yeah, but if:
[09:21:02] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> 1. It's a "small" language, and there's a good reason to think that there are no other MediaWiki sites in it that would be broken by this change.
[09:21:04] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> 2. The translation in translatewiki is actually incorrect.)
[09:21:43] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> This is not a good idea (re @amire80: such as "use Amire80's global sysop rights to be bold and go over the 800+ wikis we have and protect all the main pages that aren't protected yet".)
[09:22:20] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> ukwikinews main page is explicitly not protected for example, so that everyone can juggle the thematic blocks as needed per current set of news
[09:22:36] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> I would see it as vandalism for random gs to change that
[09:22:46] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> :P
[09:23:57] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I heard #2 from one user, but it can be verified by a community discussion. It's a small community, but there are a few editors. (re @Thecladis: 1 is still dubious unless 2 is also true)
[09:24:04] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> And generally in small wikis it is not rare to not have any sysops at all, while main page does need to be edited sometimes
[09:24:27] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> ukwikinews main page editing is autoconfirmed-protected and moving is sysop-protected. (re @Thecladis: ukwikinews main page is explicitly not protected for example, so that everyone can juggle the thematic blocks as needed per current set of news)
[09:24:38] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Yes
[09:24:54] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Ah, true in this case you need moving
[09:25:10] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> That sounds like a sensible default for all main pages.
[09:25:22] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> That I guess makes sense as sysop protection
[09:25:29] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I can't give you a precise frequency, but main page vandalism in tiny wikis is definitely a thing.
[09:25:37] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I've been asked to address this multiple times.
[09:25:44] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Of course it is (re @amire80: I can't give you a precise frequency, but main page vandalism in tiny wikis is definitely a thing.)
[09:26:02] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> But it would make sense if MW would apply it automatically then (re @Thecladis: That I guess makes sense as sysop protection)
[09:26:19] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Indeed. Maybe I should create a task. (re @Thecladis: But it would make sense if MW would apply it automatically then)
[09:26:48] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> This reminds me how enwiki has code level protection against deleting main page
[09:26:58] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> And enwiki only, I think
[09:28:51] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> yes, apparently only enwiki admins can’t be trusted to not stick beans up their nose :trollface:
[09:29:08] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> ([[en:WP:BEANS]] for context)
[09:29:35] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Not so weird to be extra-cautious, given that it's (probably) the #1 most popular content page on the world wide web. (The main pages of Google, YouTube, and Facebook are not content pages, but custom dynamic auto-generated portals.) (re @Thecladis: This reminds me how enwiki has code level protection against deleting main page)
[09:30:32] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Yes, that is crazy that most main pages are technically counted as articles :)
[09:30:47] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> (Although so are disambiguations, so...)
[09:31:30] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> It is always surprising when someone does visit main page or at least knows what it looks like though (re @amire80: Not so weird to be extra-cautious, given that it's (probably) the #1 most popular content page on the world wide web. (The main pages of Google, YouTube, and Facebook are not content pages, but custom dynamic auto-generated portals.))
[09:31:54] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Given that most people end up on Wikipedia through googling concrete topics of interest
[09:32:24] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> True, but the main page is still the most popular. (re @Thecladis: Given that most people end up on Wikipedia through googling concrete topics of interest)
[09:32:39] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> the wikipedia.org portal is probably even more popular, but it's also not a content page.
[09:32:54] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> (And it cannot be deleted a wiki admin.)
[09:33:19] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> popular = number of pageviews
[09:33:30] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Those pageviews are probably semi-automatic
[09:34:24] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Just as ukwiki has Russian news agencies articles in the pageview top all the time, because many people watch Russian state media on YouTube and get the respective warning there linking to Wikipedia
[09:34:26] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Should we delete the main page for a few hours to check which bots will it break? (No, just trolling.)
[09:35:01] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> I imagine a lot of main page hits are attribution mentioning Wikipedia rather than the author and such
[09:36:46] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> It would be interesting if you also limit access to any communication channels between wikipedians (which is impossible ofc) and survey how many of them have noticed it gone :) (re @amire80: Should we delete the main page for a few hours to check which bots will it break? (No, just trolling.))
[09:44:38] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <quiz> <ramdomArea> {{:simplequiz}} {{:simplequiz2}} {{:simplequiz3}}
[09:44:40] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> something like this
[09:44:41] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> can it be done?
[09:49:03] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> [[m:Template:Shuffle]]?
[09:51:40] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> (hm, apparently that was only used for the Wikifunctions logo vote, and elections are https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&oldid=21253544#L-184 instead?)
[09:54:39] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> I'm just trying to pull random questions from the question pool. I couldn't find a solution.
[10:03:12] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Well without js it is a slow mess since one needs to purge cache all the time for it to work probably
[10:07:53] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <quiz>
[10:07:53] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <choose>
[10:07:55] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <option>{{:Şablon:simplequiz1}}</option>
[10:07:56] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <option>{{:Şablon:simplequiz2}}</option>
[10:07:58] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> <option>{{:Şablon:simplequiz3}}</option>
[10:07:59] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> </choose>
[10:08:01] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> </quiz>
[10:08:02] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <FENPEDIA> this not working