[10:43:31] [telegram] Hello. Two months ago I have noticed that in Wikimedia Maps not all state borders are depicted, and created a task about it in Phabricator: [10:43:31] [telegram] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T296021 [10:43:33] [telegram] Nothing was done since then. However, the broader society is starting to notice it. Since this issue is related to the national borders, it is only a question of time when this will trigger some bad consequences (remember how Google Maps accidentally started a war?). [10:43:34] [telegram] So, can anyone, please bring some attention to this bug? [12:57:19] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> Cant say it was a war, but a map not compliant with national laws might lead to serious threats to volunteers. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T215073 (re @Tohaomg: Hello. Two months ago I have noticed that in Wikimedia Maps not all state borders are depicted, and created a task about it in P...) [14:28:57] [telegram] You nay want to bring this up on the broader wikitech-l@ mailing list instead of a chat group dedicated to Hackathons (re @Tohaomg: Hello. Two months ago I have noticed that in Wikimedia Maps not all state borders are depicted, and created a task about it in P...) [15:37:32] [telegram] You may want to bring this up with whoever is responsible for Indian law. (re @বোধিসত্ত্ব: Cant say it was a war, but a map not compliant with national laws might lead to serious threats to volunteers. https://phabricat...) [15:45:23] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> I am not sure, about what is meant by "whoever responsible for Indian law". If you mean Indian ministries, then I won't want to risk myself as it is such a sensitive topic in India, that it may lead to arrest and/or huge fine. If you mean T&S and WMF legal, I already did, but they said they can't help unless someone gets arrested. So, personally I am just trying to not display Wikimedia m [15:45:53] [telegram] Any idea why https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Geograph_shop.jpg has weird API responses? [15:45:54] [telegram] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=File:Geograph%20shop.jpg&prop=imageinfo&iilimit=50&format=json [15:45:55] [telegram] what is the meaning of missing "" in response? [15:46:37] [telegram] I meant that Indian law is one that should be changed, not the map rendering which shows an actual border in this case. (re @বোধিসত্ত্ব: I am not sure, about what is meant by "whoever responsible for Indian law". If you mean Indian ministries, then I won't want to ...) [15:47:06] [telegram] (yes I know that it is not something easy to do or likely to happen) [15:47:47] [telegram] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=help&modules=query%2Bimageinfo has no hint when missing appears and what it means. [15:48:02] [telegram] it is not that weird (but perhaps a bit non-intuitive); when the keys "missing" and "imagerepository" are present, that means that they apply. E.g. an image that exists will not have a "missing" key at all, and an image that doesn't have a commons equivalent will not have the "imagerepository" key at all (re @matkoniecz: Any idea why https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Geograph_shop.jpg has weird API respon [15:48:03] [telegram] https://commons.wikimedia.org/...) [15:48:10] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> Well, IMHO, its never going to happen anytime soon, considering the tense geopolitical situation prevailing in the region. (re @matkoniecz: I meant that Indian law is one that should be changed, not the map rendering which shows an actual border in this case.) [15:48:27] [telegram] that’s an API request to Wikimedia Commons, the image you linked is on the OSM wiki (re @matkoniecz: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=help&modules=query%2Bimageinfo has no hint when missing appears and what it means...) [15:48:30] [telegram] So if both "missing" and "imagerepository" are present, that means that no image exists locally, but there is one on Commons. [15:48:49] [telegram] aw. strike everything i said then 😜😂 [15:48:56] [telegram] but it exists? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Geograph_shop.jpg (re @jhsoby: So if both "missing" and "imagerepository" are present, that means that no image exists locally, but there is one on Commons.) [15:49:00] [telegram] (sorry, that’s replying to the wrong message) (re @lucaswerkmeister: that’s an API request to Wikimedia Commons, the image you linked is on the OSM wiki) [15:49:20] [telegram] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=File:Geograph%20shop.jpg&prop=imageinfo&iilimit=50&format=json has the imageinfo you want [15:49:36] [telegram] (the file does exist on Commons, as it happens, but under a different file name) [15:49:43] [telegram] Thanks! I need to find wall to bang my head on it. (re @lucaswerkmeister: (sorry, that’s replying to the wrong message)) [15:49:48] [telegram] :D [15:50:02] [telegram] it took me a second to realize too tbh [15:50:36] [telegram] I went to the file’s page information, took the page ID from there, and change the titles= to pageids= in the URL request, and got a totally unrelated title, and that’s the point where I noticed the difference ^^ [15:51:51] [telegram] Oh, I see what I did. I failed to substitute local_filename by commons_filename and it worked so far because every single duplicated image had the same name on OSM Wiki and Commons. [15:53:49] [telegram] Well, it may be still easier to do than convincing WMF to spend money on things actually useful to contributors AND to spend them on this specific project. (re @বোধিসত্ত্ব: Well, IMHO, its never going to happen anytime soon, considering the tense geopolitical situation prevailing in the region.) [15:58:14] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> 😂 (re @matkoniecz: Well, it may be still easier to do than convincing WMF to spend money on things actually useful to contributors AND to spend the...) [16:01:36] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> But seriously speaking, there should be a technical solution to depict disputed regions from all over the world as per local country laws like how Google Map works. [16:08:19] We're not trying to be Google Maps, especially in that regard [16:09:31] [telegram] Primary map SHOULD show actual borders. [16:10:02] in most cases the OSM "on the ground" concept works [16:10:05] [telegram] Maybe with option and warning "borders follow Indian censorship laws" [16:10:16] [telegram] Do you mean that it is okay, that in Wikimedia Maps some borders are not depicted at all (like Lithuania-Latvia or Belgium-France)? (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] We're not trying to be Google Maps, especially in that regard) [16:11:20] [telegram] That sounds like a different issue unrelated to "add option to show fake borders to allow following Indian censorship laws" [16:12:14] it could be useful to allow editors to show maps with different claims, but it's not something that should be done automatically [16:13:58] but yeah, getting undisputed borders to show reliably is more important :) [16:14:25] [telegram] Hello! Anybody home? What to do with actual undisputed internationally recognized borders not depicted in Wikimedia Maps? India is a very interesting topic of course, but our maps are *incorrect* in many other places due to some bug. [16:16:51] Tohaomg: as you're aware, there are several bug reports about it. I'm sure the Content Transform team (who are responsible for Wikimedia Maps since August 2021) are aware of the issue, but I don't know what their priorities are for fixing it [16:21:16] you'd have to ask them for more details, you can try contacting https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:SSastry_(WMF). Keep in mind that people are still returning from the end-of-year holidays [16:22:27] the Maps service is quite complex, and errors like this could come from a number of different places. So it's not really something that can be investigated without knowledge of and access to the systems [16:24:45] [telegram] ok, thanks for the contact, I will write to them (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] you'd have to ask them for more details, you can try contacting https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:SSastr...) [16:24:49] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> Cant say the term fake borders. Its not simple as that. The border which is shown in Wikimedia maps are Line of Control and Line of Actual Control, which are cease fire lines from 1947. They are not actual international borders per se. (re @matkoniecz: That sounds like a different issue unrelated to "add option to show fake borders to allow following Indian censorship laws") [16:27:25] [telegram] well, they are de facto on the ground borders - no matter how much India and Pakistan noth dislike this fact (re @বোধিসত্ত্ব: Cant say the term fake borders. Its not simple as that. The border which is shown in Wikimedia maps are Line of Control and Line...) [16:32:18] [telegram] Either way I will try to shut up myself as it is likely quite offtopic here to discuss censorship in India. (I guess?) [16:33:21] [telegram] <বোধিসত্ত্ব> yes, true. But disputed regions and borders are always complex. Consider Israel-Palestine borders. My point is there can't be one simple rule to display maps considering all the complexities around it. Anyways, I think, we are going out of scope of this chat group, so leaving the discussion here (re @matkoniecz: well, they are de facto on the ground borders - no matter how much India and [18:29:06] [telegram] 1