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[08:56:28] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Can a local installation of MediaWiki run on Ubuntu 21.10? I thought about upgrading my laptop from 21.04 to 21.10, but the 21.10 release notes say that it replaces PHP 7.4 with PHP 8, and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Compatibility#PHP says that MediaWiki doesn't support PHP 8.
[08:57:10] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> And when I googled for installing PHP 7.4 on Ubuntu 21.10, I found all kinds of messy instructions about changing packages configuration, and I'm really not a fan of doing such things.
[09:03:41] <taavi>	 @amire80: modern MW core versions should mostly work with php 8, you'll probably see some deprecation warnings but that's about it. not sure about the current state of extensions
[09:04:39] <taavi>	 although if you're running a release branch, I'd recommend pulling the REL_ branch from git instead of using the latest point release, we've been backporting fixes and not all of them are in a point release yet
[09:06:24] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I'm usually running the latest thing from Git, with Docker.
[09:08:26] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> The comment at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T248925#7659109 sounds kind of encouraging, but... I think I'll wait for a more official announcement.
[09:08:42] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> But thanks, it's good to know that it maybe a few days of weeks away.
[09:09:22] <taavi>	 if you're running in docker, why do you care which php version your host os has?
[09:10:17] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I'm stupid, I never totally understood docker :)
[09:10:55] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Does it automatically install a version of PHP that is necessary for MediWiki?
[09:12:40] <taavi>	 depends on what exactly are you doing with docker, I'm not up to date with mw docker environments :-) but in general you run mediawiki inside a "docker container" which has its own copy of php that's totally independent from what you have in your host operating system
[09:12:58] <taavi>	 ftr I currently run my dev wiki on 8.1 (since that's what debian testing is shipping) with CentralAuth and some other complicated extensions, works fine with deprecation warnings turned off
[10:05:47] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> Docker is like a virtual machine, except that, unlike Vagrant, it is not a virtual machine... (re @amire80: I'm stupid, I never totally understood docker :))
[10:06:29] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> But from pragmatic standpoint it is still the easiest to view it as one...
[10:11:18] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> I'll never forget a coffee shop, which had a dessert called "Square chocolate balls". They were actually triangular. (re @Thecladis: Docker is like a virtual machine, except that, unlike Vagrant, it is not a virtual machine...)
[10:15:28] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> I've kept my work laptop on 21.04 for the same reason, though probably not for much longer since it dropped out of support the other day (re @amire80: Can a local installation of MediaWiki run on Ubuntu 21.10? I thought about upgrading my laptop from 21.04 to 21.10, but the 21.1...)
[10:15:40] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> this is encouraging to hear :) (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <taavi> ftr I currently run my dev wiki on 8.1 (since that's what debian testing is shipping) with CentralAuth and some ot...)
[10:19:14] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> 😆😆 (re @amire80: I'll never forget a coffee shop, which had a dessert called "Square chocolate balls". They were actually triangular.)
[10:21:23] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <Thecladis> And this reminds me the "square hole" video :)
[10:35:08] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Well what do you know... I ended up taking the risk and upgraded the laptop to 21.10, and stuff seems to work.
[10:35:37] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Special:Version says PHP 7.2.34, so I guess it's true Docker installs everything necessary.
[14:43:56] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <caprieldeluca> Hi, I'm Gabriel, I'm part of the OSM Argentina community. Some OpenStreetMap basemap services that I understand are hosted by Wikimedia have been deprecated. I wanted to know if you could give me more information. It is about the domain https://tiles.wmflabs.org/
[14:45:49] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> Hi Gabriel! There is a dedicated Wikimaps telegram group, it might be even better to ask the question there. Should I add you to it? (re @caprieldeluca: Hi, I'm Gabriel, I'm part of the OSM Argentina community. Some OpenStreetMap basemap services that I understand are hosted by Wi...)
[14:47:43] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <caprieldeluca> Hi Jon! Thank you. I don't know if you can add me. The group requires invitation? (re @jhsoby: Hi Gabriel! There is a dedicated Wikimaps telegram group, it might be even better to ask the question there. Should I add you to...)
[14:48:43] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> i couldn't, but i see you found it anyways 👍😊
[14:48:55] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> https://t.me/wikimaps in case anyone else is interested too
[14:49:24] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <caprieldeluca> Thank you! (re @jhsoby: i couldn't, but i see you found it anyways 👍😊)
[15:06:00] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> does anyone know who maintains https://pagecounts.toolforge.org/ ?
[15:07:08] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> Kaldari and MusikAnimal: https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/pageviews (re @amire80: does anyone know who maintains https://pagecounts.toolforge.org/ ?)
[15:07:25] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <mahir256> https://toolsadmin.wikimedia.org/tools/id/pagecounts suggests Jdrewniak and MaxSem
[15:07:28] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <amire80> Thanks!
[15:07:44] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <jhsoby> yeah 😅 i checked the wrong one
[19:36:40] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> Does anyone here know how to turn off verbose logging in pywikibot? : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/338920d2/file_11355.jpg
[19:39:09] <AntiComposite>	 DennisPriskorn: logging.getLogger('pywiki').setLevel(logging.WARNING)
[19:49:42] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> 😍 (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <AntiComposite> DennisPriskorn: logging.getLogger('pywiki').setLevel(logging.WARNING))
[20:00:01] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> It did not work unfortunately it seems... : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/c33ec363/file_11356.jpg
[20:01:16] <AntiComposite>	 yeah pywikibot is rather annoying about log levels, that giant header is output when you import it
[20:12:14] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> hm. I'm used to https://github.com/LeMyst/WikibaseIntegrator and it is completely silent in comparison.
[20:15:45] <AntiComposite>	 actually I don't think it's on import anymore, but when the logger is initialized it resets the level
[20:16:18] <AntiComposite>	 try calling pywikibot.bot.init_handlers() before setting the level
[20:21:50] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> Found this also.I searched the documentation twice and have not found out how to control the logging yet. :/ : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0d40dabc/file_11357.jpg
[20:23:51] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> The maintainers/developers really seem to have a lot to learn about usability. I also don't like that the code is not easy to fork and so on because they do not use github/gitlab.
[20:24:21] <AntiComposite>	 it's on Gerrit with most everything else Wikimedia
[20:26:08] <AntiComposite>	 which is commit focused, not branch focused. eventually everything will move to the Wikimedia GitLab instance, but it's not ready yet
[20:26:18] <AntiComposite>	 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T272088 is the relevant task
[20:26:25] <AntiComposite>	 (for the logging)
[20:26:53] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> yes I heard about it being difficult so I have avoided it (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <AntiComposite> which is commit focused, not branch focused. eventually everything will move to the Wikimedia GitLab insta...)
[20:27:09] <AntiComposite>	 it is no more difficult than git itself
[20:28:41] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> 😅 I'm not the only one : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/835efa3f/file_11358.jpg
[20:31:06] <AntiComposite>	 yeah, Pywikibot was designed to be a do-everything framework, including its own logging stack built on top of python logging
[20:35:33] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> mm, I have seen Myst throw out a bunch of stuff (sparqldataframe, wikipedia-related API code) from WBI and I really like keeping libraries small and focused.
[20:35:49] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> I tend to end up writing bloated tools myself though 🙈
[20:44:15] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> I just found a way to silence it and added it to the ticket. Ahhh.
[20:48:47] <AntiComposite>	 ideally pywikibot wouldn't have a custom log level, and if they did need something more verbose than debug it should be under debug
[20:49:22] <AntiComposite>	 but that's not an easy change now that it's been doing it for howevermany years
[20:50:37] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> yes, I read that it is bad practice to define custom logging levels in Python. The logging stuff is complicated enough already 😅 (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <AntiComposite> ideally pywikibot wouldn't have a custom log level, and if they did need something more verbose than debug...)
[20:51:56] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> Now that we have WBI and it works fantastic and supports more or less all of Wikibase, they could limit the scope of pywikibot to non-wikibase mediawiki stuff. (re @wmtelegram_bot: [irc] <AntiComposite> but that's not an easy change now that it's been doing it for howevermany years)
[20:53:42] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> Then they could close all these https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/search/query/mJwCEYrWX9te/
[20:58:06] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> We already have 2 competing libraries for Wikibase in Python 😃
[20:58:43] <taavi>	 having multiple libraries for the same thing isn't exactly a bad thing
[21:42:10] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> I wrote T300445 and suggested they use WBI instead of WDI for wikibase integration.
[21:57:14] <AntiComposite>	 there's at least three for the core Action API alone
[23:00:37] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> You gotta love false positves! 🕺 : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/925c3105/file_11361.jpg
[23:10:21] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <lucaswerkmeister> good thing these potential edits are still being checked by a human and not made automatically
[23:50:45] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <GoEThewiki> Dance your PHD winner? https://www.science.org/content/page/announcing-annual-dance-your-ph-d-contest (re @DennisPriskorn: )
[23:51:12] <wm-bb>	 [telegram] <DennisPriskorn> 👍 (re @lucaswerkmeister: good thing these potential edits are still being checked by a human and not made automatically)