[05:55:19] [telegram] I wish we could clone Pintoch, but alas we can't do such yet. So next best thing: be like Pintoch, and join the awesome OpenRefine developer community 😊 [06:04:16] [telegram] I feel sad when I see the name Pintoch because Pintoch left the Wikidata community and continues to find the site unusable yet somehow puts time into this tool that many editors of Wikidata find useful, and now Pintoch is trying to put a positive spin on further detaching himself from Wikidata-related matters [07:40:53] [telegram] <εŽε”―δΌŠ> ckz t.me/+H0INxMEVA9BlYjM1 [10:54:24] [telegram] What makes you say he finds the site unusable? I have worked with him closely for a year, and have never heard him say that. I do know he is interested in other things, which is totally fine. (re @mahir256: I feel sad when I see the name Pintoch because Pintoch left the Wikidata community and continues to find the site unusable yet s...) [10:59:12] [telegram] People move on all the time. We need to be able to deal with that. It's good to make room for new people, too. [13:00:59] [telegram] He has stated as much, first in February 2020 and reaffirmed in October 2021 (re @trnstlntk: What makes you say he finds the site unusable? I have worked with him closely for a year, and have never heard him say that. I d...) [13:04:38] [telegram] ([[d:Special:Diff/1125497583]] for the former, and communication during the Wikidata Workshop for tne latter) [13:07:37] [telegram] If this were a clean break two years ago, rather than one which took two and a half years to accomplish, I might feel less despondent on seeing the name; "be like Pintoch, join OpenRefine" has the undertone of "leave Wikidata" as a result (re @trnstlntk: People move on all the time. We need to be able to deal with that. It's good to make room for new people, too.) [13:13:48] [telegram] I understand you feel like that about Pintoch specifically, but for instance my story is very different, I am very dedicated to both OpenRefine AND Wikidata. We also had several other Wikidatans becoming active for OpenRefine and not leaving Wikidata. We each have our own motivations. [13:14:52] [telegram] Anyway, I still very much invite everyone to our info session at the hackathon tomorrow, and judge for yourselves. [13:20:59] [telegram] Please understand that my despondency does not arise from mentions of OpenRefine (I am glad to hear that you and others have affirmed multiple dedications); were this session run by Antoine and yourself only, for instance, I'd feel less despondent (re @trnstlntk: I understand you feel like that about Pintoch specifically, but for instance my story is very different, I am very dedicated to ...) [13:26:06] [telegram] And I think you are reading too much negativity in it (and I'm saying that based on a year of almost daily interactions with Antonin). [13:35:35] [telegram] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb55e54mgBw [13:54:30] [telegram] hello Mahir! Sandra alerted me about this discussion so I thought it would be helpful to join :) I understand why you read bitterness in my post. There is not! Yes I do think Wikidata is not perfect and I wish some things had turned out differently, but I still think it is a very nice project, and I still enjoy contributing to it from time to time. And yes I still care very much about the Wikidata integration i [13:54:42] [telegram] And the good news is, @trnstlntk has joined OpenRefine a project director this year. That is, project director of all of OpenRefine, not just the Wikimedia part of it. She is definitely a keen Wikimedian and I do not see any sign of her wanting to let Wikimedia integration rot in a corner. I am only withdrawing from this area because I know I can count on her to find the right people and partners to keep this a [14:41:12] [telegram] Anyone knows how to ask questions in the live q&a on YouTube? [14:44:49] [telegram] Not possible as far as I can tell. (re @defined: Anyone knows how to ask questions in the live q&a on YouTube?) [14:57:16] [telegram] Is the the actual wikimania event? Because i thought everyone would be having a meet-up [15:46:33] [telegram] See the Wikimania wiki for Pheedloop information instead of Youtube. [20:33:44] [telegram] You have to watch on YouTube, but ask questions on Pheedloop [20:34:07] [telegram] (Because on Pheedloop itself the stream is delayed by several minutes) [20:34:45] [telegram] It is online with some local offline meetups this year (re @defined: Is the the actual wikimania event? Because i thought everyone would be having a meet-up) [20:35:15] [telegram] Though as it is very terrible from technical perspective this year perhaps it would be a good nudge to finally have it offline again :) [20:44:10] I mean, there are good ways to do it that aren't Pheedloop [21:03:06] The software user for actual hackathon was ace [21:06:08] yeah, I'm not sure how well WorkAdventure would scale, but "jitsi rooms on a wiki page" worked great [21:06:24] ye [21:06:39] I mean WA was jitsi rooms on a nice map [21:06:59] It's open source so it can be hosted anywhere even if WA themselves didn't like big use [22:49:08] I wish that WorkAdventure was actually Open Source, but unfortunately it is source available instead. They chose to license under AGPLv3 + Commons Clause. The addition of the Commons Clause restriction means that this is not an Open Source Initiative approved license. That in turn means we can't host it on Wikimedia servers. :(( [22:49:40] * bd808 wishes that OSI had pursued trademark on Open Source so that this was less confusing [22:51:08] bd808: that's sad [22:51:28] WorkAdventure WMF hosted would have been ideal [22:52:22] WorkAdventure is fun for me, but we found during the last hackathon that it works really, really badly for most folks on touch devices. It's also completely un-accessible to screen readers. [22:53:47] I don't know that there is any "wander around a map" type of collaboration software that is accessible to folks who depend on screen readers [23:26:27] [telegram] Hi all. Yes- Pheedloop supports a lot more accessibility features than WorkAdventure, which I believe influenced the ultimate choice of the Wikimania COT. We will be sharing the Hackathon Jitsi links on wiki shortly, so anyone can join those too. [23:34:50] [telegram] Last year's Wikimania platform had fewer technical issues that this year's [23:35:21] [telegram] This year there is in theory better support from mobile, but at least for me there is no possibility to join the sessions via Android app [23:35:38] [telegram] So the only good the app is is to change my name