[12:37:00] Odd issue: In the Kurdish Wikipedia, on the page https://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taybet:Agahdar%C3%AE , the date is shown in English. As far as I can understand the code, the date string comes from moment.js, although I might be wrong. [12:38:37] Now, the curious thing is that the Moment.js library has localization for Kurdish (ku), but it appears to be in the Arabic alphabet. (It would possibly be appropriate for the language we call `ckb` in the MediaWiki world.) [12:38:48] Nevertheless, the English string is shown. Does anyone know why? [12:39:37] Where is the date there? : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/64512bd0/file_43737.jpg [12:41:18] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/72f6fd13/file_43738.jpg [12:41:23] Hmm... I see something different. [12:42:12] Ah, I guess it is because I have no notifications there, let me click on something [12:42:58] Indeed also en for me : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/b027e8ad/file_43740.jpg [12:43:52] Well it is strange if we use some inferior l10n from third party libraries instead of what MW provides, imho [12:51:33] Hi all. As has been discussed several times in this channel, and there seems to be agreement, I'm planning to push for the creation of a new Telegram group to be bridged with the #mediawiki IRC channel / Matrix room. That would "free up" this channel to be used explicitly for hackathons. Since currently this is the main venue for Wikimedia technical discussion in Telegram, I thin [12:51:33] k it would make sense for the admins of this group (IIUC @jhsoby, @amire80 and @MaartenDammers) to be admins in the new MediaWiki group — after all, the traffic and subjects are likely to be pretty similar. Would you be OK with that? [12:52:17] Makes sense. Also pinging @bd808 . (re @waldyrious: Hi all. As has been discussed several times in this channel, and there seems to be agreement, I'm planning to push for the creat...) [12:52:20] Also pinging @bd808, @gtisza who have been active in past discussions about this subject and who may be interested in moderating the new group here too [12:53:30] I am not sure there was a wide call to do that, but well, as long as there is a venue to ask technical questions it doesn't really matter which one it is I guess. [12:54:15] Ha, you were faster :) (re @amire80: Makes sense. Also pinging @bd808 .) [12:56:00] There have been several scattered discussions, at least judging from a search of this group's logs, and AFAICT the general disposition has always been in favor of a proper #mediawiki bridge (re @Thecladis: I am not sure there was a wide call to do that, but well, as long as there is a venue to ask technical questions it doesn't real...) [12:56:25] +1 from me on making a space for general MediaWiki support that is elsewhere. [13:16:26] huh? I thought the idea was to create a new irc channel to bridge this telegram channel to, because people on the irc side don't like how we use the telegram channel? [13:17:04] There already is an IRC channel bridged to this channel. The bridging can be improved, but that's a separate problem to tackle :) [13:17:17] or to only bridge the two during hackathons [13:17:31] yes, but they don't like it [13:18:46] or people can part and only join during hackathons [13:20:16] You mean the people in the IRC channel don't like that this group is bridged to it? If it's because of the additional chatter, this new group would help with that. If it's because of the bridge software not being very good, that can be addressed as well, but that's orthogonal to the creation of a separate group to bridge with #mediawiki [13:24:56] but why should *we* have to move, if we're not the ones unhappy with using a single channel for hackathons and year-round coding/development related stuff? [13:25:44] Nobody has to move. The proposal is simply to bridge #mediawiki to Telegram, and I came here to ask the admns of this channel to also admin the new one [13:26:32] What about -tech? If it still exists [13:26:54] the creation of a new channel implies people are going to start being told to stop taking/asking about certain things here [13:26:56] This group is already bridged to IRC (the #wmhack channel), and that will not change [13:27:22] which is what the irc wants, but I'm not sure it's what the telegram side wants [13:28:32] Either way, I'm not advocating for or against changing that. I realize I may have been a bit ambiguous with my initial proposal, sorry about that. [13:37:56] Huh, it looks like t.me/mediawiki is reserved, and to use it one would have to place a bid in an auction, with a minimum price in the hundreds of dollars 🤦 [13:38:21] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0943269b/file_43742.jpg [13:38:55] 💩 [13:38:56] lmao. legal@ should talk to them I guess [13:39:48] Also wtf is [[en:TON Web 3.0 Address]] [13:40:17] some blockchain 💩 it seems [13:40:57] lmao [14:08:27] Actually there is an article 🤔 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_Open_Network (but after reading it I'm still confused) (re @Thecladis: Also wtf is [[en:TON Web 3.0 Address]]) [15:06:41] it’s relatively recent, maybe announced a month or so ago iirc [15:07:25] (you could say that’s embarrassingly late to jump *onto* a crypto bandwagon but apparently telegram didn’t feel so) [15:08:05] it started in 2018... the name bids thing was a recent [15:13:44] better late than never! /s [17:40:38] So... what should we do about the short name/URL for the group? [17:46:40] what if we don’t have one? (e.g. the Wikidata group doesn’t have a short name / URL either) [17:54:41] Chiming in late. What about renaming this to Mediawiki? New places always take a long time to get the same traction… (re @waldyrious: Hi all. As has been discussed several times in this channel, and there seems to be agreement, I'm planning to push for the creat...) [17:56:59] does the operator of the bridge have to be the owner of the group? [17:57:55] Weird, I tried to create a group to test this, but I can't seem to make it public without adding a public address. I'll add you so you can test too (re @lucaswerkmeister: what if we don’t have one? (e.g. the Wikidata group doesn’t have a short name / URL either)) [17:59:01] yeah, I think what the Wikidata group does is create invite links and post them on-wiki? [17:59:59] I am not personally excited about turning the Wikimedia Hackathon telegram channel into some other general purpose MediaWiki support channel. This is why I brought up the topic drift initially. [18:02:28] I find that flow to be pretty limiting (those links don't work in the browser, for example, see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Telegram#Links_not_working?), but if that's what people prefer, fine by me. (re @lucaswerkmeister: yeah, I think what the Wikidata group does is create invite links and post them on-wiki?) [18:03:58] Well, this group is already bridged to the #wmhack channel... unless you're suggesting we unbridge it, rename it to mediawiki and and bridge it to #mediawiki? (but then the #wmhack channel would be without a Telegram presence, i.e. the same position that #mediawiki is in today) (re @siebrand: Chiming in late. What about renaming this to Mediawiki? New places always take a long ti [18:03:58] me to get the same traction…) [18:06:16] IMO since the channels exist separately on IRC/Matrix, it would make sense for them to also exist on Telegram. And to avoid splitting the communities of each channel, the IRC/Matrix connection should IMO extend to include Telegram as well. All the pieces of that puzzle are in place right now (for the #wmhack and #mediawiki channels) except for the telegram group for mediawiki, so [18:06:16] it seems easier to make that missing link and complete the graph than shuffling things around. [18:08:41] Maybe the upcoming hackathon is the occasion to create a new channel for the hackathon and keep this one for general Mediawiki / Wikimedia tech environment discussions. So only people who intend to join the upcoming hackathon and the next ones will have to join a new channel. But I don't have a strong opinion on the topic, whatever you decide works for me as long as there's a cle [18:08:42] ar place to share hackathon-related info. [18:08:46] How about something like /mediawiki-support or /wikimedia-mediawiki? The exact link embedded name doesn't matter much does it? (re @waldyrious: So... what should we do about the short name/URL for the group?) [18:11:20] "wikimedia-mediawiki" sounds good! We can always rever the group to private if spam becomes an issue; that wouldn't affect the bridging since it doesn't rely on the name [18:11:22] We need to have a discussion somewhere other than in message streams here to show consensus for a change of this Telegram channel before I would be comfortable as the current Telegram channel "owner" in pointing it to a different IRC channel/replacing it for the purposes of #wmhack. [18:12:48] One concern I have with that option is that the bridging software (IIUC) has the ability to backfill history, and I wonder if it would be an issue if we "merged" two channels with separate histories. Perhaps legoktm or @gtisza (tgr_) will know more. (re @Auregann: Maybe the upcoming hackathon is the occasion to create a new channel for the hackathon and keep this one for general Mediawiki /...) [18:13:16] I understand what you mean, Bryan. To me it’s mostly been a place on telegram to still connect with some devs that are on IRC. Regardless of the subject. (re @wmtelegram_bot: I am not personally excited about turning the Wikimedia Hackathon telegram channel into some other general purpose Media...) [18:14:12] The IRC<->Telegram bridge has no history backfill solution. Matrix is a Yet Another Platform problem. [18:14:35] I'm talking about this one: https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/mautrix-telegram [18:15:44] Quoting @gtisza in T323845: [18:15:45] > _Wikimedia Telegram channels are currently bridged to IRC via _Bridgebot (https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tool:Bridgebot) _/ _matterbridge (https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge)_, and that works about as poorly as can be expected: text gets over but nothing else, and all Telegram users (and on the other end all IRC users) are shown under the same account._ [18:15:46] _We should try bridging Matrix with Telegram, either via matterbridge or _mautrix-telegram (https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/mautrix-telegram) _(either _t2bot.io (https://t2bot.io/telegram/) _or self-hosted)._ [18:15:48] _IRC bridging would then work via the relatively high-quality (e.g. puppeting-capable) Matrix-IRC bridge._ [18:43:05] I invite everyone here to submit their gems to https://github.com/johnsamuelwrites/awesome-wikidata [18:43:06] Let's show the world all the awesomeness we got! [19:05:40] FOMO-based scam (re @Thecladis: Also wtf is [[en:TON Web 3.0 Address]]) [19:32:31] We kept this channel over multiple hackathons I think so wouldn’t change that (re @Auregann: Maybe the upcoming hackathon is the occasion to create a new channel for the hackathon and keep this one for general Mediawiki /...) [20:39:48] I don't think it makes sense to change this channel (on either side of the bridge). Bridging #mediawiki to Telegram is something that can be explored, especially since it's already bridged to Matrix and Discord (via Matrix).