[07:36:30] <volans|off>	 btullis: for when you'll be around, it seems that an-test-client1001 is in a weird state: is not in puppetdb (was puppet disabled for more than 2 weeks?) as reported by Netbox report and also sent a couple of cron-spam emails for debmonitor failing to get updated ( SSLV3_ALERT_CERTIFICATE_EXPIRED) and a cumin alias 'hadoop-client-test' not matching any host.
[08:40:37] <btullis>	 volans: ack. Oh, sorry. I'll have a look at it now.
[08:41:08] <volans>	 thanks!
[08:48:51] <addshore>	 Is anyone aware of anyone ever looking at or thinking about https://backstage.io/ for Wikimedia?
[08:49:27] <addshore>	 I'm going to give it a brief look at and try out for wmde teams and software components and see how it feels
[08:52:46] <jynus>	 I don't understand what that is, lots of abstract words :-)
[08:53:06] <btullis>	 volans: I believe that's fixed now. Apologies.
[08:55:58] <volans>	 btullis: thanks! You can check the alert box on https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Puppet#Maintenance for more context on why that happened. And I'm happy to answer any question you might have
[09:03:04] <addshore>	 jynus: the main bit of interest for me is the "software catalogue" part, showing who owns what, where it is, what state it is in (deployed etc) and other things like that
[09:03:46] <jynus>	 I see, it looks like the thing wmcs did for their hosting
[09:04:05] <btullis>	 Got it, thanks. I saw a similar problem with an-test-coord1001 last week, I think. It was just a genuine error on my part, forgetting to re-enable puppet. Icinga notifications are also off for the an-test* hosts too, which didn't help I suppose.
[09:05:31] <volans>	 yep, that doesn't help but should show up anyway on icinga UI
[09:13:48] <majavah>	 addshore: so basically a fancy version of https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developers/Maintainers?
[09:14:09] <addshore>	 majavah: yes I gess, as the core part I am looking at anyway
[09:15:12] <addshore>	 I mainly came across it from the topic of onboarding engineers into components or services, as it connects all of the pieces in a nice way, code, docs, ownership, state etc
[09:15:46] <addshore>	 Add someone to a "team" they can see what they as a team "own" and read about it all and see how ti all connects
[09:17:32] <addshore>	 There are lots of other potentially nice features, and a plugin API too, but I might ignore looking at most of that for now
[13:50:13] <legoktm>	 o/ we're going to do the services DC switchover in ~10 minutes
[13:55:19] * volans runs away
[13:56:43] <jelto>	 to join the session:  tmux attach -rt dc-switch-services on cumin2002
[13:58:17] <rzl>	 (sudo)
[13:58:43] <rzl>	 and as always please remember that the shared session is as big as the *smallest* connected terminal
[13:58:49] <rzl>	 so please use a large window or no one will be able to see :)
[13:59:51] <legoktm>	 rzl: that shouldn't be an issue now with bullseye tmux! it'll just be the small terminal person who won't be able to see everything
[14:00:23] <rzl>	 oh nice! I stand corrected, please use a large window or you will miss out on stuff and that would be sad :(
[14:00:53] <godog>	 cheers! and good luck
[14:01:28] <rzl>	 I'm also running `tail -f /var/log/spicerack/sre/switchdc/services-extended.log` so I can scroll independently, others may like to do the same
[14:02:36] <mutante>	 thanks, was about to paste that option as well, that's how you can watch without messing with the tmux size
[14:03:02] <legoktm>	 I think we're all ready to start? if so, lets move to -operations
[14:03:07] <rzl>	 👍
[14:03:16] <akosiaris>	 +1
[14:03:19] <jelto>	 +1
[17:32:14] <legoktm>	 godog: fyi, I removed the swift section (https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Switch_Datacenter&type=revision&diff=1925058&oldid=1925030) because it's fully automatic now
[17:33:37] <hauskatze>	 Anyone remembers why https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/g/operations/mediawiki-config/+/cc7901b11ac1a2fe4842937ca229a4577771de90/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php#25519 ?
[17:33:53] <hauskatze>	 there's an ongoing voting at eswiki regarding that setting
[17:34:41] <legoktm>	 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/284483
[17:35:58] <legoktm>	 also some discussion on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/283339 but seems like James_F is the person to ask
[17:37:09] <hauskatze>	 James_F: are we still banning wgKartographerWikivoyageMode on more projects?
[17:37:15] <hauskatze>	 thanks legoktm :)
[18:01:37] <James_F>	 hauskatze: Yes, I believe so, for performance/scaling reasons.
[18:02:03] <hauskatze>	 James_F: Yep, I assumed so too
[18:02:21] <hauskatze>	 why people keep doing things without knowing if they can be done
[18:02:22] <James_F>	 (And legal reasons? Eh, it's been too long.)
[18:02:23] <hauskatze>	 smh
[18:03:02] <hauskatze>	 well I'm finishing an email to sitereq-l because they intend to change several Kartographer values and I'd like to know if any of their proposals can be achieved :)
[18:03:14] <James_F>	 Oh right, that list.
[18:03:20] <James_F>	 Is it still going?
[18:07:47] <hauskatze>	 I don't see further messages since 2020
[18:08:10] <James_F>	 I don't see it on the mailman list.
[18:08:33] <hauskatze>	 it's a wikimedia google group James_F 
[18:08:47] <James_F>	 Oh, right.
[18:09:02] <hauskatze>	 at that time, we (well, I) thought it'd be best to flee from yet-another-mailman2 list
[18:09:07] <James_F>	 Fair.
[18:09:12] <hauskatze>	 no searching possible, etc.
[18:09:17] <James_F>	 Maybe we should switch back? But eh, moving is hard.
[18:09:45] <hauskatze>	 not much would be lost, maybe we can start one from scratch if people is still interested in a specific low-traffic list for site-requests only
[18:10:05] * James_F nods.
[18:15:40] <legoktm>	 if someone can provide us with a .mbox archive, we can import it into Mailman3
[18:16:37] <hauskatze>	 legoktm: it's at https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/g/sitereq-l - urbanecm is the admin
[18:17:18] <hauskatze>	 inquiry sent: https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/g/sitereq-l/c/o10aVd4-Itk
[18:19:27] <legoktm>	 lets see if Google Takeout works
[18:20:08] * urbanecm waves
[18:20:22] <urbanecm>	 Is there something I can help with legoktm / hauskatze ?
[18:21:12] <hauskatze>	 urbanecm: not sure, we're just talking about sitereq-l
[18:21:40] <legoktm>	 eh, it doesn't work unless I own group
[18:21:54] <legoktm>	 if someone has a copy of all the emails in their inbox, they could follow https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-export-your-emails-from-gmail-as-mbox-files-1171881
[18:22:07] <legoktm>	 (if you're using Thunderbird it should be even easier)
[18:25:26] <urbanecm>	 legoktm: I can probably give you ownership
[18:25:31] <urbanecm>	 Or follow steps myself
[18:25:36] <urbanecm>	 Or use thunderbird
[18:25:47] <legoktm>	 the steps should be https://support.google.com/groups/answer/9975859?p=groups_takeout&visit_id=637671540656916482-2905249500&rd=1#zippy=%2Cinformation-about-you%2Cinformation-about-groups-you-own
[18:26:05] <legoktm>	 takeout.google.com, tick only Google Groups, and hope it spits out a mbox file
[18:29:18] <hauskatze>	 Do we really want to move it though?
[18:29:32] <urbanecm>	 mailman3 is much better than mailman2, imo
[18:29:37] <hauskatze>	 I'm not opposed, but maybe it's no longer useful
[18:29:47] <hauskatze>	 agreed re mm3
[18:30:12] * urbanecm hopes I'm not going to dump _all_ groups
[18:30:59] <legoktm>	 all groups you own I think
[18:31:12] <hauskatze>	 urbanecm: lol, I can see the smoke already
[18:34:34] <urbanecm>	 legoktm: https://people.wikimedia.org/~urbanecm/tmp/sitereq-l@wikimedia.org.tar.gz, looks okay to me
[18:35:23] <legoktm[m]>	 Can you file a new mailing list request and assign it to me?
[18:35:29] <urbanecm>	 sure
[18:36:14] <urbanecm>	 (implied answer made explicit: i think we should move to mailman3, as it's a standard location for similar lists, and more accessible [joinable by anyone, etc]
[18:38:52] <James_F>	 +1
[18:39:14] <urbanecm>	 T290908 created
[18:39:14] <stashbot>	 T290908: Create sitereq-l@lists.wikimedia.org - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T290908
[18:42:36] <majavah>	 til we even have a list for that
[18:43:24] <urbanecm>	 hehe
[18:47:47] <hauskatze>	 we can even change its name
[18:48:13] <hauskatze>	 majavah: there's an idiom here which roughly translates to: "you'll never go to bed without learning something new every day"
[18:50:13] <hauskatze>	 in any case, before migration, I'd appreciate a reply to my mail (/me hides) :-)
[18:50:26] <urbanecm>	 sure
[18:51:01] <urbanecm>	 hauskatze: do you take "I don't know" as a valid answer?
[18:51:59] <hauskatze>	 it's a valid answer
[18:52:56] <hauskatze>	 looks like commons does allow interactive maps though urbanecm ?
[18:57:57] <urbanecm>	 hauskatze: i have to say i really don't like users who start votings with "I want to set this variable to true/false/whatever"
[18:58:02] <urbanecm>	 that's almost never what they want
[18:58:08] <urbanecm>	 they want software to do...something, usually
[18:58:11] <hauskatze>	 urbanecm: indeed
[18:58:33] <hauskatze>	 I politely told them that they should've asked before
[18:58:49] <hauskatze>	 especially if there's a big old DO NOT ENABLE label in the config
[18:59:44] <urbanecm>	 indeed
[18:59:52] <urbanecm>	 and especially when it's called "Wikivoyage mode"
[19:01:31] <urbanecm>	 I'm personally going to follow the direction given in the config
[19:03:14] <hauskatze>	 I think that's a wise choice
[19:04:03] <urbanecm>	 especially since i still don't know what it does :D
[19:11:45] <RhinosF1>	 Users get what they want wrong nearly every time when they try suggest technical solutions
[19:11:51] <RhinosF1>	 I've heard all sorts of nonsense
[20:07:54] <hauskatze>	 urbanecm: thanks for your reply :)
[20:08:05] <urbanecm>	 np