[16:11:09] <duesen>	 Krinkle: fyi: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T324216
[16:26:32] <Guest55>	 Hi I try make a API request on the On this day API but I got this message { httpCode: 404, httpReason: 'Not Found' }
[16:29:17] <Reedy>	 What URL did you use?
[16:29:43] <Guest55>	 https://api.wikimedia.org/feed/v1/wikipedia/en/onthisday/all/
[16:29:57] <Guest55>	 I copied straight from the example
[16:32:56] <Reedy>	 https://api.wikimedia.org/wiki/API_reference/Feed/On_this_day
[16:33:08] <Reedy>	 The 404 is a bit odd
[16:35:11] <Guest55>	 I tried resetting my Access Token and change the input date but same error
[16:38:02] <Reedy>	 https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/feed/onthisday/events/01/15 is slow... but seems to be actually doing something
[16:41:01] <Guest55>	 Yeah I changed the url and then it works.
[16:41:10] <Guest55>	 Thank you so much
[17:27:32] <Nemo_bis>	 Is WMF hiring search folks? https://www.elastic.co/blog/ceo-ash-kulkarni-email-to-elastic-employees
[18:15:02] <Nemo_bis>	 Also how do we get the WMF to become a Matrix member? :) https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-matrix-org-foundation
[18:32:36] <tgr_>	 <Nemo_bis> "Also how do we get the WMF to..." <- We don't use Matrix much, it wouldn't really make sense IMO. (Becoming a PHP Foundation member, on the other hand...)
[18:45:21] <Nemo_bis>	 Well but it's obvious that WMF *should* use Matrix more. If it doesn't, it's supposedly because some features are missing, so it could push/help get these done
[18:45:30] <Nemo_bis>	 Not sure what PHP Foundation focuses on these days
[18:46:07] <Nemo_bis>	 Being a "major sponsor" would be a no brainer I guess https://opencollective.com/phpfoundation/contribute/major-sponsors-34207
[18:46:17] <AntiComposite>	 unfortunately the WMF has gone all-in on Slack internally
[18:46:32] <Nemo_bis>	 That's precisely why it needs to be in the Matrix Foundation :) 
[18:46:46] <AntiComposite>	 i think you've got your order of operations backwards
[18:46:57] <Nemo_bis>	 nah
[18:49:57] <Nemo_bis>	 lol @ being listed right next to Wiley https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List
[18:51:23] <tgr_>	 <Nemo_bis> "Well but it's obvious that WMF..." <- I agree, but it's better to focus on that, not on asking for money. I don't think it's blocked on features (threads coming out of beta, maybe, but that's happening soon anyway), or rather, we don't use it enough to even know what features we would be blocked on.
[18:53:21] <Nemo_bis>	 Money is much easier to get than action
[18:53:29] <tgr_>	 <AntiComposite> "unfortunately the WMF has gone..." <- The WMF has an internal Matrix instance, although I don't think many people use it. External use would be the more interesting thing IMO - Slack is very good for internal use (quite ahead of FLOSS alternatives) but not at all suitable for an open community, while Matrix is designed exactly for that.
[18:53:37] <Nemo_bis>	 Changing communication structures at an entity like WMF costs millions
[18:53:59] <tgr_>	 Nemo_bis: Hasn't been my experience.
[18:54:27] <Nemo_bis>	 What costs are you accounting for?
[18:55:38] <Nemo_bis>	 The dismantling internal-l alone has likely cost several million dollars
[18:55:45] <AntiComposite>	 the problem ends up being the line between internal and external. A lot more business used to be conducted in ways that volunteers could participate (on IRC, mailing lists). But the availability of Slack has closed those off
[18:56:22] <Nemo_bis>	 Transaction costs caused by the dismantling of other communications structures probably cost many more millions of dollars already
[18:56:53] <Nemo_bis>	 And any major migration typically takes years of lowered productivity in a transition phase, which would costs several million of dollars too
[18:57:21] <Nemo_bis>	 So asking 500 k$ for a Matrix Foundation sponsorship is peanuts realyl
[21:23:16] <tgr_>	 <AntiComposite> "the problem ends up being the..." <- My hope with the internal Matrix instance was that it can eventually be more open than Slack. But while on its own it is an inferior but viable alternative to Slack, the bridge between the two is not at the level of quality where I think it would be a good idea to rely on it, even the various legal and security concerns around mixing internal and external communication channels would be resolved.
[21:24:27] <tgr_>	 <Nemo_bis> "So asking 500 k$ for a Matrix..." <- Well asking 10 k$ for a PHP Foundation sponsorship didn't work out so far, but good luck.
[22:55:06] <Nemo_bis>	 tgr_: I'm glad you tried. :) Maybe the proposal needs to find the correct budget or cost/value of reference.
[22:55:47] <Nemo_bis>	 For the Matrix foundation I'd put it under (internal) communications. I believe that has several millions in budget? :) 
[22:57:34] <Nemo_bis>	 The first step is probably to surface the enormous hidden costs of the status quo.
[22:59:10] <Nemo_bis>	 For PHP I guess the most logical department to pay for the sponsorship would be T&C, as the sponsorship mostly benefits the recruitment opportunities for WMF. (Especially if you get an informal deal for PHP Foundation to post a guest article about job openings at WMF.)
[23:00:00] <Nemo_bis>	 The proper scale would then be the normal cost of referrals. I guess one or two accepted applicants would be enough to cover it?
[23:04:42] <bd808>	 We had a PHP core contributor and release manager working at the WMF for years and we assigned him to work on a Java application so... yeah.
[23:05:21] <bawolff>	 lol
[23:06:08] <Izno>	 yeah, maybe not the best allocation of resources there
[23:06:22] <Izno>	 could have kept MediaWiki caught up to PHP 7.x instead :upside_down: