[01:51:18] NovakWatchmen: what is the project? [01:55:15] NovakWatchmen: " If there is no such icon, the board is disabled. If there are good reasons to have a workboard, you can enable it via "Manage" in the left-side menu and then choosing "Edit Menu" on the right." https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Phabricator/Project_management#Boards [02:55:45] You would need to be the trusted users group to do it iirc [06:18:31] Krinkle: I think that's probably the pragmatic way to go, but I wish we could stop cramming things into the MW namespace and actually separate things. [06:32:43] "~~progress~~pragmatic is his middle name" — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmZ3AUvNYHQ&t=3m15s [06:33:48] ~~progress~~* [06:37:19] :)) [06:38:31] NB is valid HTML these days, having had semantics assigned to it after the fact, but the sense of the semantic is "something that is no longer true" rather than the same sense as [21:47:55] Hey, I won't be able to come in-person to hacking night, but will still be participating online. [21:51:06] Is there a hacking night? [21:51:18] * bawolff is now aware of one [21:51:22] *not aware of one [21:51:28] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Hacking_Night_2023 [21:51:53] Oh that's really cool [21:52:02] I'm not in new york but i hope you all have fun [21:52:35] i'm not either... 2h of train away and tired so probably won't go... [21:53:41] Fourier-Deligne-: is there something you want to work on, even just remotely? [21:55:51] bawolff: depends, my background is primarily mathematics, so anything related to it i guess (especially if there's anyone who's up to work together [21:56:36] oh wow... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Isbell_conjugacy,_Isbell_duality [21:56:41] Aren't all things related to mathematics if you dig deeply enough :P [21:57:40] Unfortunately the stuff I've been working on lately doesn't have much to do with math, so i don't really have any suggestions [21:58:02] not quite, at least in the foreseeable future, and if you dig too hard you will eventually meet Gödel, waiting there for you [21:58:13] lol [21:58:47] but that Isbell duality thing was surprising, as apparently the nlab society is here (x [21:59:44] In the more wild future category of things, I have somewhat been interested in the idea of more visualizations on wiki, and I think math articles are probably an example of a topic that often benefits from vizualisations [22:00:41] I made a rough proof of concept of allowing lua to make interactive visualizations, but its probably not going anywhere ( https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Monstranto ) [22:00:58] If you did have thoughts on the idea, i'd be interested in hearing them [22:02:39] i don't think there's a big Lua codebase for those... you will have to start everything from the beginning [22:03:10] maybe you can embed some d3.js content? is there any legal, security, etc concerns for it? [22:04:22] Its a very rough PoC, no where near anything that would actually get deployed [22:04:41] But in principle security concerns should be managable [22:05:04] And it should be possible to add bindings to existing js libraries like d3 [22:05:24] But i should emphasize all this is in crazy idea territory, actually doing it is a long way off [22:06:01] oh then it probably will work like a charm, for example this is my note for some students i was teaching this semester: https://analytic-bias.github.io/agora/mat126/w15.html [22:06:44] it can probably be integrated into the page Cusp (singularity) (something with similar name) directly [22:07:05] In some cases, i think what is actually needed is not visualization so much as interaction. Like I could imaging the euclidian algorithm might make more sense if you could put in two numbers and see the equations show up on the screen step by step [22:07:28] although whether or not wikipedians feel that would be an appropriate "tone" is something i have no idea about [22:08:09] Fourier-Deligne-: thanks for the link. That's definitely much nicer than last time i took a math class [22:09:18] well i'm not the regular instructor. i actually care about taking this 2000 year tradition and responsibility of mathematical pedagogy seriously [22:10:39] and if it's euclidean algorithm... i guess it's more like "element-wise" animation, so e.g. https://animejs.com/ + MathJax [22:11:14] or manim interactive (like 3b1b's youtube), but that probably won't come to the web soon [22:11:46] To me, i think the big thing I would love to see is to just give the tools to Wikipedians to be able to easily make whatever they think is best, and see what they come up with [22:12:21] I think previous efforts (graph extension) have been too high level and perscriptive, which has made it hard to adapt them to different use cases [22:13:31] in fact, stuff like algebraic topology can also benefit therefrom: https://epiplexis.xyz/a/ygw/introduction_to_spectral_sequences [22:14:02] I think most of the history of wikitext is that things got much better when wikipedians got low level tools they can make their own abstractions around. Lua templates worked out so much better than making a new specific tag for every use case, like or whatever [22:16:00] so the reason i think the js thing might be a bit better is that, if you look at my source code repository, the code generating that interactive widget is like 10 lines, most of which is even written by copilot, and i spent like <5 min on it [22:16:23] it's almost like writing plain text once the toolchain is set up [22:16:31] JS definitely has more mind share than lua for this sort of thing [22:16:50] this is the strongest encouragement for people to write these widgets in their math-edu text [22:17:38] wait i was disconnected... [22:17:54] was there a policy violation? i'm sorry in that case [22:20:21] I don't think so [22:20:26] 14:16 -!- Fourier-Deligne- [~Fourier-D@ool-4357fb69.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed] [22:20:39] Maybe you had a network timeout [22:20:49] oh, lol.. [22:22:46] so do you know how these online-hybrid hacking nights work? do we just chat here or have a zoom room etc? (well i was curious what kind of food there will be; sad that i'm too tired to go... [22:24:56] The web irc gateway is quite janky, which might be why you keep getting booted [22:25:19] Generally the clients you download work much better [22:25:46] oh [22:25:49] let me try [22:25:54] I don't know how the hacking night event works. Someone more involved with organizing it ( legoktm maybe? ) might have more to say [22:26:24] hi! [22:26:45] Fourier-Deligne-: hey :) [22:27:00] this is the first time we've done a hacking night so we're still figuring out what people want [22:27:16] ahh so sad i can't go... [22:27:18] my plan was just to put the IRC channel on the projector and encourage people to join and chat in here depending on the level of remote participation we get [22:27:24] (i'm in the middle of LI... [22:27:28] don't worry - the goal is to do this monthly [22:27:33] oh yeah, totally get it [22:28:02] oh wow then we should set up a carpool planning page... [22:28:18] I will be asking for people's feedback afterwards and one of the questions will be regarding scheduling, if there are better times/days of the week that work for people [22:28:57] do you usually use hybrid teleconference stuff for similar meetings? [22:30:04] for WikiWednesdays we were, but tbh it's been not great usually the online people just listen to the in-person stuff and can't fully participate [22:30:20] at least for tonight I wanted us to focus on doing a good in-person event before expanding to remote coverage [22:30:35] ah okay [22:32:32] honestly the amount of signups / interest were way more than I expected (yay), which is why I didn't advertise it further past the NYC channels because I wanted it to stay managable [22:32:46] otherwise I would've told you about it bawolff ;) [22:33:33] legoktm: No scholarships to fly out to new york for a single evening ;) [22:34:10] true, we're all in on trains here [22:34:24] hahahaha.... [22:34:33] "I think most of the history of wikitext is that things got much better when wikipedians got low level tools they can make their own abstractions around." You're telling me! :) [22:34:33] gotta love mta [22:35:44] i guess i'll come back to the chat about 1h later to see if anyone wants to work on math/theoretic CS/compling related stuffs tonight... [22:36:42] sounds good! I'm about to head over to the venue for setup :) [22:53:43] aw no fair [22:53:49] * TheresNoTime needs to move to NY [22:54:26] TheresNoTime: tell me about it, all the cool people live in NY [22:57:09] yes, but if you hate walking don't move there... (ah NYC is so bright, so progressive compared to SC, sigh [22:57:50] I'm yet to visit NY and it *not* rain the entire time, so I'm not too sure on walking.. [23:02:02] While I'm in vancouver and its been raining all week, so it'd probably be an improvement