[14:52:28] Hi, I see https://notwikilambda.toolforge.org/wiki/Main_Page , what means ZObjects? [14:52:42] I understand base false and true but other are natural language only [14:53:11] ? or other object? How is correlation to WIkidata millions objects? [16:02:27] You'll notice that I translated again the newsletter. In the last one, I added some illustration. Frequently these letters are pushed immediately to social networks, but without any suitable illustration and littel care about the look and feel: they can be boring without some minimal markup which does not focus the important points; I also made [16:02:28] sure that these were more easily transaltable with translation units limteid to one sentence or block and minimal markup in translation units, so that these transaltions could be more easily completed, and read/fixed, using also the translation memory. Since the launch of the project, I've also made sure that all pages on Meta-Wiki were correctly [16:02:28] categorized and translatable as much as possible, because this is one of the main reason for the creation of Abstract Wikipedia (whose Wikifunctions will be a part). All is about translation, and we must involve as many users as possible speaking many underrepresented languages: we need their input, and we should be more inviting! So presentation [16:02:29] and translation are really something to improve including for that project and its presentation, goals, progresses, calls for contributions, and also to better explain the technical background which will be complex. We must not frighten them, Wikifunctions must be engaging. [16:06:43] Waht do you think of these small changes I do, does it have some audience or allows you to get more contacts (and possibly more interesting inputs for the many coming challenges to pass for the success of this project? Or will that project just increase the complexity of approach of Wikimedia projects by underrepresetned communities? [16:10:50] tbh I find it weird how much the weekly updates are edited after they were published… I want to read what the Abstract Wikipedia team wrote, not what verdy_p thinks they should have written [16:12:08] But I do not change the text. all is there, just improved to allow their easy translation, and minimal presentation to make it more appealing [16:13:42] Without this work, all would be in English, not focusing the people that this project is aimed to improve their experience and representation in WM. [16:14:20] Ins't this project accepting contributions and just working with its small internal team alone? [16:16:55] And nothing should be frozen, there are lots of way to improve, test, and change things. This is described as a work in progress (which will succeed only if it reaches the intended people and gets more people interested in it). We need their contributions, otherwise this project is just a wasted cost [16:19:05] Of course you may disagree with some of my small edits. But many of them have also improved the organization of the needed documentation. It also helped lot of prople participating in the past two votes. But we need other kind of involvement than just deciding a name (OK) and a logo (vote still not formally finalized) [16:35:27] And as the last newsletter says "we invite external organizations, in academia and in industry as well as hobbyists and independent developers and researchers, to help us tackle these interesting and difficult challenges." [16:54:12] The blockdoute was a presentation feature containing the detailed arguments answering the top question (jsut before the conclusion summaring it out of the block. I don't know why you think it is incorrect.. Now you've just made the letter boring again to every one (including by removing the illustration). Do you want nobody reads it or cares about [16:54:13] translating it ? [16:54:31] IS tyhat project just for Denny ? [16:56:33] (I'm replying to verdy_p in a private chat, because this discussion isn't relevant for most of the people here/telegram) [16:56:46] But I cannot reply to your discussion [16:57:23] It requires a "nickserv" registration, that still does not work for me [16:57:53] And in fact my reply has nothing personal, it is relevant to this topic for all [16:59:23] I was not specifically speaking with you quiddity and expected others to give their voices here [17:01:35] Also "The bridge to telegram that was here is now gone. There is a similar bridge in the channel of the same name on libera.", so Telegram no longer see this [17:01:55] I am on Telegram, and I see everything, verdy_p [17:02:23] So my link on Telegram is gone for unknown reason (no notification of anything) [17:02:39] your link? [17:04:45] Anyway I don't like Telegram (may be I was ejected because I rejected their spying cookies by default on all sites they track) [17:05:15] @lucaswerkmeister: hi, not sure if you're aware but notwikilambdas function-orchestrator is crashing with "Error: Cannot find module 'merge'" [17:07:58] (I can't write to the ##temp channel.. Certainly a bug of this webapp with my Chrome browser) [17:08:49] majavah: thanks, I’ll take a look [17:17:09] In full disclosure, verdy_p's Telegram account was silenced on the Telegram channel after a conversation from February in which he used what was construed by others within to be anti-immigrant rhetoric (which I will reaffirm on Denny's behest I could have pointed out with less crudeness), and only now has that Telegram account been removed from this Telegram channel--although I should note that it is not a ban, as in the minu [17:17:09] te possibility that verdy_p learns how to control the amount he speaks at one time he can rejoin the Telegram channel using that account. [17:29:25] Thanks, mahir256 [18:05:38] majavah: should be fixed now [18:07:35] (npm is still being weird and not installing that merge module, see the ~tools.notwikilambda/k8s git log for details) [18:25:49] What do I learn from mahir256? I have never used anti-immigrant rhetoric. Did someone talk in my name using a fake account? [18:26:25] Don't know what you've done just now but finally I can access here via Telegram [18:28:34] And what('s the point about my talk when people here send random emojis with no content? [18:34:07] I did not post that on Telegram, I was on the IRC, and nobody was talking there, I did not interrupt anyone there [18:34:55] Telegram and IRC are bridged (if you somehow missed that fact) and thus what you post in one place shows up in the other [18:35:21] (speaking of which @bd808 It appears that since the move to libera.chat this channel is no longer logged; think you could fix that?) [18:35:24] and the point given by Mahir supposedly in last February is not relevant either (nothing found). Was in in the previous IRC server (before the move tp Libera.Chat, as the previous one proved to be abusing users) [18:38:04] And what part of the latter half of this message, which I should remind you was one of a number @WMYupik found problems with, *wasn't* condescending towards immigrants exactly? (re @Philippe: I live in an area with lot of underprivileged people, all of them of a smartphone, with 4G access. They just use it for phone or Facebook or other social medias, even if they could use it to develop their own skills.) [18:39:48] So I don't know what happened here in February, I was not there in Telegram. And the previosu IRC has breached lot of privacy rules with a single admin doing whatever he wanted (including impersonation). Moving to Libera.Chat was a good solution for all services. [18:39:48] I can't tell what mahir or you are talking about for this "immigrants rhetoric". That was certainly not me, I've always talked and made many things in favor of integration of minorities [18:40:40] There's NOTHING here about me or from me in February. [18:42:56] Here's @WMYupik assessing one of your messages from February. (re @WMYupik: That first part is judgemental.) [18:43:24] And here's @Sannita agreeing with another assessment by @WMYupik. (re @Sannita: +1) [18:44:09] And here's @vrandecic also taking issue with one of your comments from the same February conversation. (re @vrandecic: First, speaking as a second generation immigrant, the assumption that I should be helping my "home culture" develop is highly problematic.) [18:44:42] Which conversartion??? Nothing in logs or in my history here? [18:45:37] And here's @lucaswerkmeister patiently asking you to hold off on gabbing without hearing from the other side. (re @lucaswerkmeister: maybe you can wait for an answer to your question before trying to argue against it?) [18:46:46] Just because your past remarks are not in your selective memory does not mean that others here can't recall them themselves (re @Philippe: Which conversartion??? Nothing in logs or in my history here?) [18:48:00] And just because you cannot view them on account of your rejoining with the current channel settings does not mean others who have continually participated in the channel since February can't see the messages of theirs I'm replying to. [18:50:52] I can see all message on this channel since very long, but not mine or any one talking about me? I'ev proven since loing that I made lot of efforts to support minorities (speaking various languages, or with accessibility problems, or difficulties to navigate and find relevant contents). I don't understand your unproven assertions [18:52:09] If you want this channel to be more active, that is certainly a desirable thing. If you want to bring up questions about the current prototype implementations or the underlying ideas behind them or even other ideas (without denigrating the project and promoting your own alternate thing, as at least one individual on the mailing list has), I'm sure these would be welcome. [18:53:16] I've not denigrated the project that I help since the beginning. [18:53:47] It's jsut that it is insufficiently open and still does not reach its intended goal and public [18:54:19] And IMHO, the Communications department of Wikimedia should help Denny's team [18:54:39] But your long ramblings and "bold" edits to messages sent out by the main individuals are helping no one, and both @quiddity and @vrandecic have taken issue with your actions past and present, and I'm sure others in this chat can provide their qualms about you. [18:54:45] because visibly he is short of time and too busy in developping things [18:55:34] mahir, I still don't undersand your unproven assertion [18:56:33] other people are just ranting against me because they've not understood or overinterpreted one of my word? Do you know that English is not my native language? [18:57:14] (And do you know that English is not a native language of the other four people whose messages noting issues with your rhetoric in February I identified?) [18:57:54] Sorry, the connection in Libera.Chat constantly forgets my session (now Guest there...) [18:58:29] 1) If you click the quoted parts (within the Telegram interface), it will scroll up to the February conversation. [18:58:30] 2) However, please let us discuss this elsewhere, to avoid distracting the other 150 people in here. You are welcome to start a discussion on my usertalkpage, or in a private chat with me if you prefer. [19:01:51] mahir256: the mw-bot logs are apparently at https://wm-bot.wmcloud.org/logs/%23wikipedia-abstract/ now, so I think someone just needs to update the /topic [19:03:03] /topic@wmtelegram_bot [19:04:54] thanks @quiddity [19:05:59] Maybe if Philippe stopped yapping, as had been forced on his Telegram account through the channel settings from February to this month, and sat down in a tranquil place (one which suppressed his urge to respond incredibly quickly and relentlessly to the next thing someone exhaled from their mouth) to patiently consider the point that @jhsoby's screenshot from 18:30 UTC is trying to make (yes, even messages with little extra t [19:05:59] extual content added by their authors are meaningful, just as they were meaningful in February), and fully acknowledged the drawbacks of his long often incomprehensible streams of consciousness and the minuscule benefit (if not a full lack thereof) they provided to the project as a whole, you could perhaps provide more meaningful help to the project than you might think you do at present. [19:06:01] You're wrong, nothing from me or about me here since 1( January (posted by Stefano about his logo), and another user saying me "thank you". At that time we were discussing about how to organize the vote for logos. [19:07:10] since 15 january. I've been absent completely in February. And just opened here today asking to comment about the current form newsletter. [19:09:07] was there someone impersonating me here ? [23:31:25] Is this not you? (re @Philippe: And when I donate the PC to someone, I install it with user's accounts configured with them. That's something you won't find in a shop (or it will be costly). I do that in their home, with their preferences (I show them some relevant choices). I give back also notes so they remember their settings, and configure also the 2FA (iof they ever forget their infos).)