[05:33:40] looking at wiki data query service on mobile for inspiration for the mobile Wikifunctions editor : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/6be7096a/file_9898.jpg [05:34:44] a question — should aliases be called “tags” instead? since tags are used for search and more familiar language (as far as I know). [05:35:50] an "alias" makes it clear that it's an alternate way to refer to the same object, which "tag" as far as I have seen does not [05:38:00] I agree. Aliases and tags are not the same. (re @mahir256: an "alias" makes it clear that it's an alternate way to refer to the same object, which "tag" as far as I have seen does not) [05:44:47] Yes, agreed! They're not the same. I think they could serve the same purpose, potentially. Tags are used primarily for search, which, IIUC, is the same purpose of aliases? I think tags are more familiar to more people due to social media. Alias on the other hand is less familiar. I only tested the interface with one non-technical person (someone who doesn't code and isn [05:45:20] *isn't familiar with how interfaces are wired) [05:46:02] and she wasn't able to make the connection as to where aliases would come into play. I tested the function editor with her. Just one person, but I can see her confusion extending to others. [05:49:25] Right, but a tag can be incredibly general (#kashmiri #calculus #bmi #sickofhashtags), which an alias shouldn't be ("inflect Kashmiri verb" vs. "conjugate Kashmiri verb" possibly referring to the same function); perhaps calling them "alternate names", "alternate labels", or some equally synonymous phrase might make it clearer? [05:50:44] Right, but a tag can be incredibly general (#kashmiri #calculus #bmi #sickofhashtags), which an alias shouldn't be ("inflect Kashmiri verb" vs. "conjugate Kashmiri verb" referring to the same function, or "apply product rule" vs. "differentiate product of functions" referring to the same function); perhaps calling them "alternate names", "alternate labels", or some equally synonymous phrase might make it clearer? [05:53:25] When Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons was introduced, some were discussing/using it as if were *just* a tagging system (such as might be useful for training an object detector), causing this data on some files to be incredibly general; calling aliases "tags" might lead us down a similar route of unneeded generality [06:10:27] Is this question related to Abstract Wikipedia in particular or a remark about Wikidata items? (re @Aishwarya: a question — should aliases be called “tags” instead? since tags are used for search and more familiar language (as far as I know).) [06:12:31] I agree that calling aliases tags would be a bad idea. they might both primarily be used for searching (at the moment. who knows how things might be used in the future) but they're different concepts (in the same way that redirects and disambiguation pages are different from categories) and changing it would change what people put in there [06:18:29] Aliases are essentially redirects, would that be a clearer name? [06:23:11] About Wikifunctions! apologies for the lack of clarity. and thanks for the historial context @mahir256 that is deeply helpful. Yes I think "Redirects" more clearly connotes why an editor should add aliases, and prompting the editor to add "alternative names" will remove any confusion that was there. (re @Jan_ainali: Is this question related to Abstract Wikipedia in particular or a remark about Wikidata items?) [06:23:18] I think "other names" or "alternate names" like mahir suggested is probably clearer. "redirects" seems like something that would mainly be familiar to experienced wikipedia editors [06:27:10] also, redirects might lead people to think that two functions shouldn't share the same alias [06:29:11] Yeah but if you neither know coding nor Wikipedia, perhaps Wikifunctions is not the place to start? I know it sounds elitist but it is sort of a backend project that requires a level of knowledge of what it is supposed to do [06:29:32] 👍. thanks Nikki. also your analogy to wikipedia is helpful. So then it seems like aliases should remain aliases but perhaps renamed, and there is an entirely different set of use cases for tags. user testing with different copy will help here too. (re @Nikki: I think "other names" or "alternate names" like mahir suggested is probably clearer. "redirects" seems like something that would mainly be familiar to experience [06:55:06] I don't think the aim is for wikifunctions to just be a backend project. it'll be the backend for abstract wikipedia, but it's its own project which could be used in a whole manner of different ways. it might not initially be very usable to someone who isn't familiar with coding or wikipedia, but over time, I don't see why it couldn't be. and since it's designed to be mainly language-independent, instead of based on english [06:57:42] +1 ^ or as a way to answer questions that functions can answer or do calculations that only functions can do. my understanding is it could also assist non technical Wikipedians with their editing work [07:00:40] like one of the challenges in programming is knowing the right function names (at least *I* certainly spend far too much time looking up what the exact name of the function I want to use is 😅), but when it's designed so that function names are more of a way to find the function you want, that's less of a problem and you can focus more on the steps needed to achieve what you're trying to do than on memorising the names of [11:25:27] this is a direct contradiction of how @vrandecic envisions this to be iirc (re @Jan_ainali: Yeah but if you neither know coding nor Wikipedia, perhaps Wikifunctions is not the place to start? I know it sounds elitist but it is sort of a backend project that requires a level of knowledge of what it is supposed to do) [11:54:05] Then clearly he has greater vision/imagination than what I do :) (re @mahir256: this is a direct contradiction of how @vrandecic envisions this to be iirc) [14:44:47] Hello all! We are about to release a first and beta version of Lua access to Lexemes on Bengali and Basque Wiktionaries (as well as Wikidata and Test Wikidata). We hope that this will be the next steps for more reuse of Lexemes on other projects :) [14:44:48] The Lua interface is not stable yet and some bugs or breaking changes may occur. [14:44:49] If you're interested to enable it on another wiki, if you encounter issues, or if you would like to show us your first experiments with Lua, feel free to reach out to us! [14:44:51] Full announcement: https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikidata@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/SHWAELL327NNOJEELAYPBQCDCCNFLLNS/ [17:48:47] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/82872b47/animation_gif.mp4 [17:48:57] Very good news