[00:48:34] After tallying the pretty clear results here and the more spread out results on Mastodon together, the first function will be "concatenate". I think I will name it "join together" for now, in order to make it a bit better understandable. If the community hates it, you can revert it in a week 🙂 [01:32:36] aww how boring *shakes head at people* :P [05:10:43] Is today the day? Ist there maybe some (even just small) celebration planned? 🎉 [05:47:03] Do we know an approximate time at this point? [05:50:47] I'd suggest maybe "join strings". The word "join" already includes the sense "together", but doesn't include "strings". (re @vrandecic: After tallying the pretty clear results here and the more spread out results on Mastodon together, the first function will be "c...) [05:51:01] Really not a big deal, though. [05:51:42] Lots of aliases for this one :) [05:51:53] 🚲🏡 [13:06:54] For wiki creation? Around 16:00–17:30 UTC according to https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments#deploycal-item-20230726T1600 (re @Jan_ainali: Do we know an approximate time at this point?) [14:05:39] yep, that's the time we're currently aiming for, we'll update you as soon as we can about it [14:06:18] no celebrations for the moment, but we can share some good feelings here :) (re @kristbaum: Is today the day? Ist there maybe some (even just small) celebration planned? 🎉) [14:53:52] Maybe just "join"? The strings are in the function signature. I thought "join together" sounds a bit better. "join strings" sounds a bit technical (which is OK in general, but for a potentially visible function I was hoping for something that sounds nice) (re @amire80: I'd suggest maybe "join strings". The word "join" already includes the sense "together", but doesn't include "strings".) [14:59:00] "Join" by itself is also used a lot when talking about relational databases. But again, it's just unimportant bikeshedding :) (re @vrandecic: Maybe just "join"? The strings are in the function signature. I thought "join together" sounds a bit better. "join strings" soun...) [15:06:13] Yeah, you're right. [15:07:21] We are very excited for today, but since it is a wiki, I would suggest to push the celebrations to the day we switch on editing 🙂 (re @kristbaum: Is today the day? Ist there maybe some (even just small) celebration planned? 🎉) [15:27:59] > unimportant bikeshedding :) [15:27:59] [15:28:01] I think it is relevant! Different languages seem to solve that in different ways (overloading names, abstract methods, unique names) and depending the programming language people come from, they will have different ways to understand what "join" (or any other name) might mean. [15:28:02] I would aim for a unique (that is, non-overloaded) name (like concatenate or join_strings)— don't trade simply looking for being simple to use-in-practice. [15:36:16] Different languages can have different labels! And also, as said, in a week you can all join* and edit it to something else. I won't mind. Too much. [15:36:17] [15:36:19] * see what I did there? [15:37:54] hmm, so you're asking us to https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?curid=7833558 ? (re @vrandecic: Different languages can have different labels! And also, as said, in a week you can all join* and edit it to something else. I w...) [15:44:00] Isn't that how wikis work? [15:44:34] (my concern was about how much was 'Too much.') (re @vrandecic: Isn't that how wikis work?) [15:44:47] I was just kidding :) [15:45:18] It's not my wiki, it's (collective) yours [15:58:19] oooh [16:01:23] I remember when I was the first person to watch what is now 'Abstract Wikipedia team' on Phabricator and then regretted it when I got spammed with tons of task creation emails lol [16:05:14] Why not combine strings instead of join? I think it more accurately reflects what we're doing (if we're not going with concatenate, which makes sense as it's not a well known word) [16:15:33] Is this [[mw:naming things]] moment? [16:23:17] So I've got this email from one of my favorite mailing lists... [16:23:28] [Newprojects] New wiki: wikifunctionswiki [16:23:43] A new wiki was created by jforrester at Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:18:46 GMT for a Wikimedia in English (en). [16:23:44] Once the wiki is fully set up, it'll be visible at https://wikifunctions.org [16:23:46] _____________ [16:23:47] Newprojects mailing list -- newprojects@lists.wikimedia.org [16:23:49] To unsubscribe send an email to newprojects-leave@lists.wikimedia.org [16:23:50] we're still in the process [16:24:13] we will share with you the website the second it's really up, but at the time it's not up yet [16:24:51] I know, I know, I've been carefully following that mailing list for many years. [16:26:02] But such an email is usually a sign of a major milestone. [16:26:22] Although wikifunctions dot org is not usual. [16:26:36] Looks underwhelming :) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/62c3124d/file_50309.jpg [16:26:58] Perhaps it could redirect somewhere for now [16:27:12] was it meant to be under www. to match the others? [16:27:37] up (re @Sannita: we will share with you the website the second it's really up, but at the time it's not up yet) [16:27:44] It used to redirect to meta, the redirect was removed recently. (re @Thecladis: Perhaps it could redirect somewhere for now) [16:28:04] Even more underwhelming with www :) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/d8790664/file_50310.jpg [16:28:08] It's a whole process! Many more steps to go. :) [16:29:07] wait, when even was the last time a multilingual site was set up? [16:29:14] 2012, Wikidata [16:29:23] oh wait yeah [16:29:30] I forgot [16:29:47] I thought of Old Wikisource or Beta Wikiversity [16:45:45] Is it really? (re @Sannita: up) [16:46:03] I was upping my message :) (re @Jan_ainali: Is it really?) [16:46:09] not up yet [16:47:31] Quite confusing when you int the message you answered to said you will share when it was up 🙃 [16:48:41] :D [16:48:48] my bad (re @Jan_ainali: Quite confusing when you int the message you answered to said you will share when it was up 🙃) [16:49:38] So the wiki is alive it seems, but it's hiding. The domain is not being properly passed through. That's our top priority right now. [16:50:43] We are aware that the Wikifunctions beta is broken right now too. That's not our top priority right now, we'll get to it later. [16:59:49] to me that sounds like it would take an array/list/whatever you want to call it and a string that goes between each pair, rather than two strings (re @vrandecic: Maybe just "join"? The strings are in the function signature. I thought "join together" sounds a bit better. "join strings" soun...) [17:01:33] Yeah, JavaScript and Java and Python all use join like that [17:04:48] Concatenate is such a scary word [17:07:55] Status of deployment can be seen here: T275945 [17:08:01] I agree "string" is kinda technical, but so is "function", I don't think we can avoid *all* technical words... and "string" would be useful in a lot of places, so I would argue that it's ok to use it (and I hope we'll have a glossary for explaining the technical words we do decide to use) [17:08:40] so "join strings"? [17:09:12] yeah, that sounds ok to me [17:23:03] FYI on [[m:Abstract Wikipedia]] it links to [[m:User:ATsay (WMF)]] as the product director but that account doesn't exist anywhere. [17:23:12] Is it mean to be [[m:User:ATsay-WMF]] that was created in [[m:Special:Redirect/log/52248714]]? (re @Nintendofan885: FYI on [[m:Abstract Wikipedia]] it links to [[m:User:ATsay (WMF)]] as the product director but that account doesn't exist anywhe...) [17:23:27] no staff rights, though [17:24:56] Fixed. :) (yup, -WMF) [17:27:09] Wohoo! https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Main_Page [17:27:32] thanks, I fixed another too (re @wmtelegram_bot: Fixed. :) (yup, -WMF)) [17:28:05] You're just faster, Jan [17:28:21] Still a few things not working, eg wikifunctions.org [17:29:41] FYI you might want to use Special:MyLanguage on the link in the sitenotice [17:36:43] So, there's something I really should have enquired about a long time ago: What do object IDs look like? [17:36:44] [17:36:46] I've seen: [17:36:47] Z123 [17:36:49] Z123K1 [17:36:50] Are there any other patterns I've failed to notice? [17:36:52] [17:36:53] (Asking, of course, on behalf of @wikilinksbot) [17:40:15] so far the regex i have is: `Z\d+(K\d+)?` Does it hold? [17:49:14] BTW will abstract content still be under CC BY-SA 3.0 despite most projects changing to 4.0 about a month ago? ([[m:Abstract Wikipedia/FAQ#What license will the functions and derived content be under?]]) [17:50:32] Z_n_ is for objects, and Z_n_K_n_ is for keys, which are kind of subobjects or properties of an object if you so want. So everything that has a wikipage is Z_n_, whereas a Z_n_K_n_ is always defined on the respective Z_n_ [17:50:53] Yikes, no, that should be 4.0! Good catch! [17:58:31] I want to know the very minute wikifunctions.org is online and I can link my Wikimedia user account [17:58:44] like… 30 minutes ago? (re @harej: I want to know the very minute wikifunctions.org is online and I can link my Wikimedia user account) [17:59:06] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/ed31361b/file_50314.jpg [17:59:08] www. [17:59:28] we're still ironing out some stuff, give us time [17:59:46] plus, remember that it's read only until next week! [18:00:35] sure, but logging in will create an account :) (re @Sannita: plus, remember that it's read only until next week!) [18:00:43] I got my two digit user ID so I’m happy [18:01:24] Oh I missed it, I'll read everything now hehe [18:01:25] Putting @wikilinksbot to the test [[Special:ListUsers]] [18:01:50] /setwiki normallinks https://www.wikifunctions.org/ [18:01:54] Fail, should go to https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=&creationSort=1&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50 (re @wikilinksbot: [[Special:ListUsers]]) [18:01:56] [[Special:ListUsers]] [18:02:21] the bot can't magically guess which wiki a telegram group belongs to 😜 (yet) (re @Jan_ainali: Fail, should go to https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=&creationSort=1&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifi...) [18:06:37] ok cool. there are no other letters involved? No Z_n_X_n_ or whatever (re @vrandecic: Zn is for objects, and ZnKn is for keys, which are kind of subobjects or properties of an object if you so want. So everything t...) [18:09:53] That's right, no other letters involved (re @jhsoby: ok cool. there are no other letters involved? No ZnXn or whatever) [18:10:45] 5733 [18:13:14] congrats on the soft(?) launch y'all! [18:15:31] jhoby: That regex is good for most purposes. If we want to be very technical, the regex for a global key is `Z[1-9]\d*K[1-9]\d*`; `Z0` is sometimes used but has special semantics. [18:15:49] jhoby: That regex is good for most purposes. If we want to be very technical, the regex for a global key is `Z[1-9]\d*K[1-9]\d*`; `Z0` is sometimes used but has special semantics [18:16:38] @TheresNoTime, thanks! Yeah, it's in testing & configuring-mode for the next week. There will be a Newsletter later today with more details. :) [18:22:54] s'all very exciting [18:23:07] it appears the Vector 2010 interface shows the Wikimedia logo instead of the Wikifunctions one [18:24:07] Yup, there are a *lot* of things to fix! We're slowly working through them. [18:37:53] can I convince someone to add a verified link to https://wikis.world/@wikifunctions/? :P [18:38:41] taavi: I'll add it to my todo list, thanks! :) [18:44:27] the page tab links to a url that doesn't work, by the way [18:45:33] Noted, thanks. :) [18:45:42] hmmm. https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/api.php?action=wikilambda_fetch&zids=Z1909 [18:45:43] If I want to fetch the English label for an object, I first need to somehow know what the ZID of English is, then loop(!) through the list of Z12K1 in Z2K3 to find the one item in that list that has English's ZID as its Z11K1? [18:59:13] probably not related to getting the site set up, but the dialog box when editing labels seems to have some z-index issues 😅 (screenshots are from vector, timeless and vector-2022 in a maximised window on my laptop. minerva and monobook seem ok) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/e0724c6d/file_50316.jpg [18:59:13] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/5bd034f0/file_50317.jpg [18:59:14] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/56ef831e/file_50318.jpg [19:03:39] yes! we have that z-index issue under this task https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337384 (re @Nikki: probably not related to getting the site set up, but the dialog box when editing labels seems to have some z-index issues 😅 (scr...) [19:04:39] cool, I got 8 (re @harej: I got my two digit user ID so I’m happy) [19:04:40] ahh, thanks :) [19:06:29] also - now that the wikis up - you can find out who is gonna be the first person to accidentally bring it down 😂 [19:27:02] I shouldn't admit that, but it entirely slipped my mind that user IDs are per wiki. How do I see it easily? (re @Nintendofan885: cool, I got 8) [19:28:00] `mw.config.get('wgUserId')` in the console is one option [19:28:18] (not necessarily ”easily” but the fastest I can think of :P) [19:28:45] Thanks! [19:28:49] sort Special:ListUsers by creation date and count? :-) (re @lucaswerkmeister: mw.config.get('wgUserId') in the console is one option) [19:29:12] or look at https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=json&list=allusers&formatversion=2&aulimit=max – it’s sorted by user name rather than ID, but at the moment we all still fit on one page ^^ [19:29:51] it seems you can go to the preferences and click "My account data from this project" [19:31:08] ?action=info also shows it: https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=User:DVrandecic_(WMF)&action=info (re @vrandecic: I shouldn't admit that, but it entirely slipped my mind that user IDs are per wiki. How do I see it easily?) [19:31:26] I was very surprised for a moment to see my Wikidata user ID is 4,427,002 [19:31:39] Then I remembered it's my WMF account [19:32:26] That made me login quickly with my private account to Wikifunctions, now I'm 81 there (and 713 on Wikidata) [19:32:36] oh, turns out I'm user ID 11 [19:32:45] but it's the 8th log entry [19:33:24] I see 10 in the log before you (re @Nintendofan885: but it's the 8th log entry) [19:33:57] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0649c8d3/Sk_rmbild_fr_n_2023_07_26_21_33_43.png [19:35:04] *shakes head at you all* if I ever have to create a new type of id, I'm going to make sure they're not numeric :P [19:36:21] oh, I was looking at [[Special:Log/newusers]] (re @Jan_ainali: ) [19:36:41] the system accounts don't have log entries [19:39:34] the language code on https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z1909 is wrong, it should have latn not lant [19:55:59] also are the page links on https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/WikiLambda_system meant to go to /view/en/...? [19:58:09] How did you find that?? Fixed on wiki, filed a bug for schemata (re @Nikki: the language code on https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z1909 is wrong, it should have latn not lant) [20:00:37] @nintendofan885: Yes, but there's a known bug with it, T342794. (Many things to fix!) [20:00:40] Yes, they are meant to do that, but the view/en is currently not working. T342794 (re @Nintendofan885: also are the page links on https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/WikiLambda_system meant to go to /view/en/.....) [20:00:57] Ah, Nick beat my a second 🙂 [20:05:29] just happened to notice it via jhsoby's link, you'll have to ask him how he found/picked that object :D (re @vrandecic: How did you find that?? Fixed on wiki, filed a bug for schemata) [20:29:11] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Apply_for_editing [20:29:11] [20:29:13] Is it normal that I can't edit this page? [20:30:03] Yes, all pages are locked until next week. There are details in last week's newsletter: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Updates/2023-07-20 [20:30:05] Currently yes [20:31:32] so far looks like three people have accidentally used their global rights to edit there. any guesses what the final number will be? [20:57:17] `mw.user.getId()` is even easier to remember (re @lucaswerkmeister: mw.config.get('wgUserId') in the console is one option) [21:56:32] Newsletter #122: Wikifunctions is up (read-only), Welcome Megan, and we are hiring! -- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia/Updates/2023-07-26 [21:57:05] So if you thought that was fun and you want to be a part of this, here's the link for our Software Engineering Role: https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/5191315 [22:11:36] Will there be any internship opportunities for this? I am currently a Computer Science student and I'm not qualified for this at all, but I would like to potentially get a head start for the future [22:25:45] We usually participate in the Google Summer of Code, which I think is the closest program to what you are looking for [22:26:35] Links for that ^ at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_programs [22:27:10] Thanks, I'll look into those