[07:32:14] I wanted to correct some grammar in the Swedish translation but where do I find the string called Z2K3? (screenshot made with ?uselang=qqx) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/33205ef3/Sk_rmbild_fr_n_2023_08_09_09_30_16.png [07:33:50] On the page Z2 [07:34:17] it's a label of an object [07:34:29] https://wikifunctions.org/view/sv/Z2 [07:34:30] Aha! Searching for Z2K3 just gave nonsense results. [07:37:05] Oh and I mixed it up, it was Z2K5 I wanted to fix. But now I am not sure anymore since the English is also in plural. Is that really correct? Can we have multiple short descriptions? [07:39:26] We're actively working on this and how to fix that. Experimentation from the communities is welcome. Maybe this really would just be a singular here, and that will be better overall? [07:51:34] Reported as T343866 (re @Jan_ainali: Aha! Searching for Z2K3 just gave nonsense results.) [07:52:09] can the language chooser be the one from wikipedia? [07:52:47] or at least can it show the preferred languages instead of searching [12:21:58] as far as i know this is non-trivial because for instance we support languages that are not supported by mediawiki, but we are in touch with the language team in order to explore how we might find ways to use the ULS also on Wikifunctions. if that doesn't work... (re @iamsabas: can the language chooser be the one from wikipedia?) [12:22:58] ...we have a couple of open task, like T335922 to explore and test improvements exacly as the one that you're suggesting 💯 (re @iamsabas: or at least can it show the preferred languages instead of searching) [12:32:45] for this idea should I file a task? (re @iamsabas: something like this?) [12:38:29] oh sorry, i missed that message! we have something similar under T339954, though it's still an early idea. let's add your suggestion a subtask. could i add your mock to the subtask? (re @iamsabas: for this idea should I file a task?) [12:39:30] yes please :) [12:40:07] Should there be comments in the code? To explain more complex stuff? Or does this go in the description? [12:41:03] for ease of translatability I imagine keeping it in the description is best (especially once 'long descriptions' get supported) [12:43:42] Is there a editing guideline page yet, aside from the tutorial? Wikifunctions:Introduction [12:44:50] some things that might go on such a page are still being debated on Project chat [12:45:32] Ah, that makes sense, thank you! [12:50:52] connected to this we also have an open task about more extended documentation for when the short description is not enough T304904 (re @mahir256: for ease of translatability I imagine keeping it in the description is best (especially once 'long descriptions' get supported)) [12:59:35] thank you @iamsabas! filed T343884 (re @iamsabas: yes please :)) [13:02:29] shop=wholesale l'ho inventato io quando ancora credevo nel documentare i tag [13:08:21] wrong chat? also, son contento di trovare un altro italofono nel gruppo 😊 (re @iamsabas: shop=wholesale l'ho inventato io quando ancora credevo nel documentare i tag) [13:10:19] (yep, it was in reply to another discussion in osmit) (re @internetam1n: wrong chat? also, son contento di trovare un altro italofono nel gruppo 😊) [13:10:54] working and replying in two different chats hahahaha (re @internetam1n: wrong chat? also, son contento di trovare un altro italofono nel gruppo 😊) [13:10:59] sorry [13:15:57] Siamo ovunque e spuntiamo dalle fottute pareti (re @internetam1n: wrong chat? also, son contento di trovare un altro italofono nel gruppo 😊) [13:18:32] translating [[Wikifunctions:How to create implementations]] I thought that instead of replicating content for different languages (in this case programming languages), it would be cool to make "human speak" generic and have some tabbed interface showing the sample in the programming language of choice [13:18:58] there are some websites where I saw this kind of UI but I don't recall at the moment [13:25:38] it's common on design systems websites, especially for the once that support multiple programming langauges, this is the polaris design system from shopify for instance : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/c2f774dd/CleanShot_2023_08_09_at_15_24_33.mp4 [14:03:09] It would be amazing if some sort of literate programming support was available for this purpose. Something like docco or one of its variants, e.g. https://mobily-enterprises.github.io/docco-next/ or https://jquery-jkit.com/sourcemakeup/ 😃 (re @kristbaum: Should there be comments in the code? To explain more complex stuff? Or does this go in the description?) [14:04:31] Such a UI could then be adapted to be multilingual, as @iamsabas suggests (e.g. with a language selector in the "human-readable" pane) [14:06:41] if they need to be translated probably they need to be external from the code? [14:08:09] @vrandecic Could you give bot rights to [[User:FuzzyBot]]? It is a system account. [14:08:28] for example a new "label" object so you may refer to the line in the implementation like Z10570L7 = extract first element [14:09:35] I'd like the idea of function implementations always being small enough that anything which might otherwise go in a code comment instead resides in the long description [14:16:04] On it (re @Ameisenigel: @vrandecic Could you give bot rights to [[User:FuzzyBot]]? It is a system account.) [14:17:28] is there any method of linking to the line in the implementation? (re @mahir256: I'd like the idea of function implementations always being small enough that anything which might otherwise go in a code comment...) [14:18:01] and done (re @Ameisenigel: @vrandecic Could you give bot rights to [[User:FuzzyBot]]? It is a system account.) [14:20:44] not really, but the whole point of short function implementations is that this such links should ideally not be necessary (re @iamsabas: is there any method of linking to the line in the implementation from the description?) [14:22:54] even if we don't impose the function length limits given by, say, Uncle Bob or Martin Fowler as requirements on implementations, it would be hoped that their brevity allows which line a particular part of the long description applies to to be recognized readily [14:24:41] e.g. shortening Z10594 by moving different chunks of it to different ZObjects and adding appropriate descriptions to those separately should ideally be enough [14:26:54] James_F: (or anyone else on the team) — FYI https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/947338 (core-namespaces: Remove dupe wikifunctions alias), you had a duplicate config stanza for `wikifunctionswiki` [14:27:14] Ah, fun. [14:27:28] which would have prevented the WF/WT aliases from working afaik [14:27:35] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Suggest_a_function#Proposed_functions_requiring_future_types how should a function be marked as "needing type change"? [14:27:38] Yeah, explains. [14:27:57] The peril of writing patches for config over two years. [14:28:02] Thanks! [14:28:26] no problem! Want it deployed, or would you prefer to do it/have it done in a window? [14:28:30] But tsk, I’m on holiday. :-) [14:28:41] ah, shoo, enjoy your holiday! [14:28:45] Push it out when you see fit, or I can tomorrow. [14:29:02] IRC on your phone means you’re always on call. [14:29:16] not if it's off :D [14:29:23] I've been doing that by adding a (!) to the start of names of functions and implementations I write, but as long as there's something flashy in the name to suggest it I guess (re @iamsabas: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Suggest_a_function#Proposed_functions_requiring_future_types how should a funct...) [14:30:07] Where is this design philosophy documented? I haven't seen that mentioned before. (re @mahir256: not really, but the whole point of short function implementations is that this such links should ideally not be necessary) [14:30:17] could you share a sample? so I can copy it (re @mahir256: I've been doing that by adding a (!) to the start of names of functions and implementations I write, but as long as there's some...) [14:33:01] the 'links from comments to function lines aren't necessary' part is _my synthesis_ of 'functions should be short' (e.g. https://medium.com/@martin.omander/i-like-uncle-bobs-guidance-on-function-length-eda952a092e9) and 'comments aren't always great' (e.g. https://bpoplauschi.github.io/2021/01/20/Clean-Code-Comments-by-Uncle-Bob-part-2.html) (re @Jan_ainali: Where is this design [14:33:01] philosophy documented? I haven't seen that mentioned before.) [14:33:49] Z10499 is one example, as are others towards the bottom of [[User:Mahir256/sandbox]] (re @iamsabas: could you share a sample? so I can copy it) [14:34:50] Short functions definitely have their benefits, but anything moderately complex would require someone to jump across multiple pages, both in depth and in breadth. It can make it cumbersome to understand what's going on. But I suppose that could be thought of as an UI problem, i.e. how to expand function documentation (and code?) in-place [14:36:18] Coming back to this, since James_F is on holiday, and we already have two +1 for the 18th, I'll go ahead and schedule an "First steps with Wikifunctions" workshop on the 18th. Let me know if you have better ideas for the title of the session! (re @wmtelegram_bot: That works for me! (My only constraint is I'm helping with "Mind the Gap" event all day on the 15th.) +1 for 18th.) [14:41:46] Something is not right 😕 Is this a known issue? [14:41:47] [14:41:49] see this (https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10594?action=history) [14:41:50] [14:41:52] My previous edit (time: 14:23) didn't work so I had to edit the same think again (time: 14:29) [14:42:41] oh hehe I added a Bangla label between the two edits of yours, which accidentally canceled your change (re @myselftahmid: Something is not right 😕 Is this a known issue? [14:42:41] [14:42:43] see this [14:42:44] [14:42:46] My previous edit (time: 14:23) didn't work so I had to edit the same ...) [14:45:05] Yes, but I don't think it was supposed to happen. There wasn’t any edit conflict. (re @mahir256: oh hehe I added a Bangla label between the two edits of yours, which accidentally canceled your change) [14:51:31] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T342964#9080854 — https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/WF:Main_Page now redirects as expected to https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Main_Page [14:55:49] I don't fully agree with the second link. (I didn't click the hostile Medium link out of principle.) (re @mahir256: the 'links from comments to function lines aren't necessary' part is my synthesis of 'functions should be short' (e.g. https://m...) [14:58:48] Either way, this is off-wiki. I was more wondering if this engineering principle is already community consensus and documented in a project policy. (re @Jan_ainali: I don't fully agree with the second link. (I didn't click the hostile Medium link out of principle.)) [14:59:02] ah ok, some replacements for the first link then: [14:59:02] https://martinfowler.com/bliki/FunctionLength.html [14:59:04] https://web.archive.org/web/20200915114842/https://twitter.com/unclebobmartin/status/1070312188080865280 (re @Jan_ainali: I don't fully agree with the second link. (I didn't click the hostile Medium link out of principle.)) [15:07:15] @vrandecic, @quiddity: Would a 60-minute session for the workshop be OK? I think just 30 min might be short, but we can go with that if you think it's best. [15:44:33] - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T343905 [15:44:34] - https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Hackathon/Schedule#Friday%2C_August_18 [16:07:23] @waldyrious That timing sounds good, and the writeup looks good. Thanks again! [17:02:29] 6264 [17:02:36] 6261 [17:03:16] Hi! I found Wiki functions thru a friend on fedi, this is awesome. Hope to help out! [17:03:44] Welcome! Let us know if you have any questions. :) [17:50:46] I'm feeling some kind of tool that can enlist all the functions for power users and maybe query/filter/modify/review them later is missing that's why I've started a prototype of something related, feel free to have a look give me your feedback [17:50:47] [17:50:49] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:BlankPage/allfunctions?withJS=MediaWiki:Ebrahim/allfunctions.js [17:52:28] sure the tools isn't going to last for a long when the wikifunctions grows and listing all of its function in one page will be going to not be feasible, it's just a prototype of a tool that hopefully is going to become useful and hopefully will evolve with the pace of wikifunctions development [17:54:19] it's source is in https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Ebrahim/allfunctions.js [17:55:30] is there the possibility of wikibase metadata like on commons files? [18:03:01] just to note if isn't obvious, every function name is clickable and one can enter `$('summary').click()` on the JavaScript to show the source of all item on wikifunction but at it's going to make ~1500 requests, that isn't efficient and I'm working on something that more efficiently can do that (re @ebraminio: I'm feeling some kind of tool that can enlist all the functions for po [18:03:01] wer users and maybe query/filter/modify/review them later ...) [18:06:02] using the tool I've learnt we have and searching for "Z16K2" I've learnt we have 135 codes and found this beauty along the way : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/ba00514e/file_50733.jpg [18:08:18] yeah, that function was deactivated, see author's talkpage [18:34:39] fantastic (re @wmtelegram_bot: yeah, that function was deactivated, see author's talkpage) [18:36:29] something I like to make community aware, guess better to do it in the wiki itself later than the chat room, but just in case, please avoid use of `.split("")` in JS as that doesn't work with all unicode characters [18:36:38] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/8219e023/file_50735.jpg [18:37:30] also not sure about ChatGPT generated code licensing, is that ok? (re @ebraminio: ) [18:39:57] I wish we can some sort of code linter later so instead of just advocating for such practices we can write linter rules and make authors know about what should be improved (re @ebraminio: something I like to make community aware, guess better to do it in the wiki itself later than the chat room, but just in case, p...) [18:43:22] Re: ChatGPT - IIUC, it should be, per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Copyright_Analysis_of_ChatGPT [18:43:32] just forgot to say also, instead of `str.split("")` one can easily use JavaScript's new fancy syntax, `[...str]` which is both shorter and support non-BMP characters of unicode [18:43:32] [18:43:34] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z10535?uselang=en&diff=prev&oldid=32204 (re @ebraminio: something I like to make community aware, guess better to do it in the wiki itself later than the chat room, but just in case, p...) [18:52:26] thanks for referring this to me, I was unaware of the policy however I haven't become that confident on what is actionable on that code snippet, guess better to leave it to other to decide about it and I can learn from them (re @wmtelegram_bot: Re: ChatGPT - IIUC, it should be, per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Copyright_Analysis_of_ChatGPT) [18:56:52] @ebraminio Note: That page is not a "policy", it's just "notes". My informal understanding of it, is that this sentence from it might be a reasonable "TLDR/Summary": "Under US copyright law, there is no protection for works created solely by machine learning programs, as machine learning programs have no legal personality and are considered to have no rights in the current legal framework." [19:03:12] thank you summarizing it 🙏 somehow that "Particularly, there may be infringement claims on the final work based on copyrighted artworks inputted into the AI, which may infringe the rights of copyright holders. In this regard, some considerations must be taken, especially when the final AI output infringes the copyright of an existing work." has confused me as that's hard to ev [19:03:13] aluate, I feel before the generative AI trend the general policy in Wikimedia was to avoid any work with unclear copyright and was even more conservative than US law system when US law on some corner cases (re @wmtelegram_bot: @ebraminio Note: That page is not a "policy", it's just "notes". My informal understanding of it, is that this senten...) [19:10:04] Good points! I'm not deeply familiar with this broad topic, so I won't speculate. [19:11:02] We are usually more conservative than law, for a caution principle, but I'd advice against falling in the copyright paranoia [20:54:31] renamed the script https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:BlankPage/allfunctions?withJS=MediaWiki:Gadget-functions-list.js to a more probable permanent name and added fetch all functionality on it, for sysops it fetches 500 items but for non admins it has to go for 50 item at a time [20:54:32] [20:54:34] I'll understand if the script feels to a bit of unnecessary load, the idea is to have a big picture of functions we have but sure the tool can be evolved in a way to make smarter queries (re @ebraminio: I'm feeling some kind of tool that can enlist all the functions for power users and maybe query/filter/modify/review them later ...) [23:15:09] Hello everyone, can we categorize functions? I want to keep every Turkish-language related function in one category