[00:08:08] what does PoC mean? [00:08:32] I assumed "proof of concept" in this context [00:09:06] ah. the only abbreviation I knew was person of colour, which made no sense at all there :) [00:55:00] I've updated my question (https://t.me/Wikifunctions/10275). [00:55:00] And some details: [00:55:01] [00:55:03] 1) Yes, i mean that case to use phrase, not separate words, and yes, in Russian this concept always written in plural (like "m... of projects", not "project m...") [00:55:04] [00:55:06] 2) We are talking only about the case: title the Wikipedia article ("Project management" as "knowledge about project management" and part of "knowledge about management"). [00:55:08] [00:55:09] In Russian Wikipedia also has a redirect from "Проектный менеджмент" (literally "Project management") to the default article title "Управление проектами" (this is more sustainable in Russian and means a "Control of projects", but in Russian we usually don't say "Control of project", "Control of projects" only). [00:55:10] [00:55:12] Another example with same rule with "Knowledge management" (Russian "Управление знаниями" that literally translate to "Control of knowledges", but English has only a singular form of this word. And also exist less common version of the phrase "Менеджмент знаний" (literally "Management of knowledge", and same plural form of knowledge word). [00:55:14] [00:55:15] Since there are already two such cases, perhaps we are talking about a linguistic rule that will need to be programmed somewhere in order to achieve a high-quality translation (correspondence of concepts) that will not look “machine”, so the question is at what level of the future Wikifunctions template for title of the article this rule can be implemented (re @vrandecic: Oh, [00:55:17] that's a really good question we a very clear answer: it depends on so many things. Sorry for asking questions back: [00:55:18] [00:55:20] 1) is ...) [03:47:07] Those words might also be directly represented in the dictionary as their own lexemes - or not. Some combinations - for example "cattle meat" might have the lexicalization "beef" in English, but may just be a compound in other languages. These compounds can be created in different languages with different functions, and might be more or less predictable and be done in different w [03:47:07] ays - "Rindfleisch", "goveđe meso", etc. If there are lexicalizations, we would need a sense, and then have the creation of compounds as fallbacks for languages that don't have lexicalizations. And those fallbacks would need to choose the right function which would need to be available in Wikifunctions. I hope that makes any sense. [03:48:00] There's already some great work on Wikidata breaking down compounds into pieces, and I sure hope that we can use this data here. [05:10:08] in english, when a noun modifies another noun, the singular form of the first noun is generally used (even for words which are normally plural) - building construction is the construction of buildings, ocean exploration is the exploration of oceans, pea cultivation is the cultivation of peas, scissor manufacturing is the manufacturing of scissors, etc (random examples, not necess [05:10:09] arily real articles) (re @Channel_Bot: I've updated my question. [05:10:11] And some details: [05:10:12] [05:10:13] 1) Yes, i mean that case to use phrase, not separate words, and yes, in Russian thi...) [05:36:21] german is somewhat similar, but it's not as straightforward as "use the singular form". sometimes there are extra letters that are inserted (the suffix -ung is followed by "s"), sometimes it's a shorter form ("erdbeer" instead of "erdbeere"), sometimes it looks the same as the genitive or plural form ("zwangs" instead of "zwang", "katzen" instead of "katze") [05:37:36] words normally always form compounds in the same way though (there are some exceptions, language is weird), so I've been adding the form used in compounds (when it's not the same as the nominative singular) as a separate form on the lexeme in wikidata, e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L36208#F9 [05:45:18] I imagine we'll have a function for each language and relationship between words that we need to describe. the examples above describe an activity and the object of the activity, the english function would return the singular form of the object followed by the activity, the german one would look for a combining form on the lexeme and join the words together, the russian one would [05:45:18] presumably use the plural [06:30:36] Hi. I'm functioneer but I can't create a new object. How can I solve this? : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/14b6fa87/file_53117.jpg [13:46:14] Solved? (re @caneroz22: Hi. I'm functioneer but I can't create a new object. How can I solve this?) [13:46:31] Please try clearing your cookie and login again [14:57:46] Each function for each phrase? (re @Nikki: I imagine we'll have a function for each language and relationship between words that we need to describe. the examples above de...) [15:41:16] For each language and type of phrase [19:25:21] Had to delete these labels to save, does not make sense to allow to input stuff there if one is not permitted to save it... : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/d8b85b02/file_53135.jpg [19:25:56] can you please be more specific about what problems did you have? so that we can report the bug [19:27:46] As an autoconfirmed, you are presented with an editable field for Inputs' labels, but you are not allowed to save what you input in the field. (re @Sannita: can you please be more specific about what problems did you have? so that we can report the bug) [19:29:06] (Also this shit is slow af in Firefox for Android on a phone with 16GB of RAM, the page freezes all the time and takes a while to load, but I guess it is kinda by design) [20:49:56] Huh? I'm running on Android with 12 GB of RAM I think, and it's quite fast. But I do use Chrome [20:52:33] (Reminder: Please try to be kind/friendly with word choices, when discussing the work of others (and always!). Thank you!) [20:54:13] Still same (re @cvictorovich: Solved?) [21:49:23] Thanks for the details. I believe that bug is covered by https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T344166 which should be getting worked on soon -- Or, it might be a new-variant of the previously resolved bug for logged-out users at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T329982 — If neither of those cover it, perhaps you could create a new bug-report that more clearly covers the steps you [21:49:24] followed before seeing that error? - P.s. Sorry for the frustration it caused. (re @Thecladis: As an autoconfirmed, you are presented with an editable field for Inputs' labels, but you are not allowed to save what you input...) [21:50:19] @caneroz22 I'm not aware of an existing bug that covers what you are experiencing. Would you be willing to file a new bug-report in Phabricator, with a step-by-step description of how you got to that screen? (With links for each URL along the way). There's a handy link for "file a new task" at https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Report_a_technical_problem#File_a_task [21:50:19] _in_Phabricator - Let us know if we can help! (re @caneroz22: Hi. I'm functioneer but I can't create a new object. How can I solve this?) [21:52:21] Interesting. I will record a video later to show how it works for me (re @vrandecic: Huh? I'm running on Android with 12 GB of RAM I think, and it's quite fast. But I do use Chrome) [21:54:19] Thanks! I obviously believe you, just surprised as it is the first time I hear about something like that. Does anyone else here have Firefox and have a similar experience? [21:56:46] Are you using the mobile view or the desktop view? [22:02:46] I just downloaded Firefox and created a function and a test, and it worked rather smooth [22:03:12] I'm curious where your slowdown comes from [22:34:28] file file_53162.mp4 too big to download (9791793 > allowed size: 1000000) [22:34:29] (re @Thecladis: Interesting. I will record a video later to show how it works for me) [22:34:30] (re @Thecladis: Interesting. I will record a video later to show how it works for me) [22:34:44] The one feature of mobile frontend I find useful is its "desktop view" link. Other ones tend to be inferior for any practical usage, at least when you have any kind of extended user rights :) (re @vrandecic: Are you using the mobile view or the desktop view?) [22:38:22] The desktop view should work too, I've used it before on Wikifunctions. But I do like our mobile view more for mobile - it fits the screen better. But anyhow, both should work. [22:40:36] To be fair Wikidata does not provide a very smooth experience either, but I have highet expectations to newer projects :) [22:40:36] Regarding the user rights, ask for functioneer rights on [[Wikifunctions:Apply for editing]] and that should fix that for you. Otherwise, as Nick said, we're working on smoothing things out further. [22:40:54] I already did yesterday night :) (re @wikilinksbot: [[Wikifunctions:Apply for editing]]) [22:41:04] I am Base :) [22:41:13] Ah, gotcha [22:43:53] Thanks :) [22:44:04] Let's see what I can do now [22:45:06] With great power comes great responsibility [22:49:02] Well, hopefully this one is not in the line with the rare things such as imports other page history modifications — the few things that are really difficilt to rollback if possible at all. As to the rest of MediaWiki its beauty is in it not being a big deal to mess up :) [22:59:22] *nervous glances* [23:06:15] I just tried going to the main page on my phone in a private tab (I'm using vivaldi which is chrome-based), clicked on the link for string equality (Z866), clicked the details tab and then "edit" next to "function definition"... I had counted to 25 (seconds, approximately, but I'm not a clock so that won't be very accurate) before it stopped showing "loading data" and started sho [23:06:15] wing some fields, and when I tried to scroll down, my browser showed a big blank area and more or less stopped responding for another half a minute or so before the rest of the interface appeared [23:10:34] Wow [23:11:31] Thanks for the report [23:20:50] it is quite an old phone so it's not going to be as fast as more recent ones (I hope), but it normally works fine [23:22:06] tried on a much newer phone (same browser) as well and it took about 6 seconds for the "loading data" message to be replaced with some interface elements, the rest of the page seemed to appear pretty quickly after that [23:24:17] Yeah, I can recreate that on that particular page, and I have a hunch where that comes from. But once it's loaded, does it work reasonably smooth? My understanding was that Bohdan was complaining about the editing experience being very slow. [23:30:33] hm, no. on the newer phone if I click an "x" to remove an alias, it takes about 6 to react, on the older one, around 20 seconds [23:31:27] Oh [23:31:36] :( [23:31:39] Thanks for the report [23:35:03] I don't plan to edit on my phone anyway (I like my screens to be bigger and my keyboards to be physical :D) but hopefully you'll be able to figure out why it's not behaving nicely so it can be improved for the people who do [23:36:59] I'm from time to time using the phone to edit it a bit, and find it a more pleasant experience than almost any other coding on the phone experience, tbh. I think I just didn't pay attention to the delays. (My phone has delays often, I usually chalk it down to network delays in some form or the other) [23:57:50] I can imagine that it works nicely for some people, I'm just not one of them. I find mobiles frustrating for any sort of extended tasks because working in such a small space feels so restrictive and I'm always aware that I would be able to see more and type faster on a normal computer [23:58:43] I remember seeing something with terry pratchett where he was asked why he had 6 monitors, and his response was "because I don't have room for 8", which basically sums up how I feel :P