[01:45:38] Why can't we already use Wikidata to describe and classify ZObject? [01:45:38] [01:45:39] Or is this already possible / not prohibited by anything? (re @vrandecic: We probably could use categories on the talk page. Not a long term solution, but to understand how that might be used) [06:25:37] +1 Wikidata or something else but we really need better way to organise the functions (I'm starting to be lost in my own functions 🤪) (re @Channel_Bot: Why can't we already use Wikidata to describe and classify ZObject's? [06:25:38] [06:25:39] Or is this already possible / not prohibited by anything?) [07:16:13] it doesn't make sense to me to create separate objects in wikidata which will *also* need labels, descriptions and aliases [07:16:51] which just brings me back to what I said before :P (re @Nikki: if only someone had created a way to have structured data for mediawiki pages... :P) [07:43:25] if I could have my way, the very-productive wikifunctions team would take the commons extension, make it more generic so it can be used to add structured data for functions in wikifunctions (accidentally add support for the data namespace on commons, and entity schemas in wikidata too) and fix some of the many little but annoying issues it has in the process, making it better for [07:43:26] files on commons too *fantasise* [07:47:38] (some of the structured data on commons issues are as old as the initial wikifunctions proposal, and wikifunctions has managed to go from idea to functioning launched project in less time than it takes to, say, focus an input field after creating it... (referring to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T265221) I don't know what wikifunctions' secret is, but wikimedia needs more of it :D) [09:46:42] One graph is better than two separate graphs: Wikidata properties for describing functions and Wikifunction graph for describing functions 🤷‍♀️ [09:46:42] [09:46:44] My goal for the MVP is to use a ready-made Wikidata graph (TBox) with links to ZObjects (ABox) and simply display that linked data in wiki function pages. (re @Nikki: if I could have my way, the very-productive wikifunctions team would take the commons extension, make it more generic so it can ...) [09:56:17] I think this is technical problem, where we will store SSOT. More important is what TBox (vocabulary) we want to use. (re @Nikki: it doesn't make sense to me to create separate objects in wikidata which will *also* need labels, descriptions and aliases) [09:59:16] @vrandecic Help me remember what task from plan is related to make folksonomy / ontology of functions? (re @Channel_Bot: I think this is technical problem, where we will store SSOT. More important is what TBox (vocabulary) we want to use.) [11:12:24] Maybe making Wikidata queryable from WF is more important [13:05:03] ? I can search "hello world" and get all ZObjects containing those two words: https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?go=%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%B2%E0%A7%8B&search=hello+world&title=Special%3ASearch&ns0=1 (re @cvictorovich: At the moment functions cannot be located by names...) [13:05:16] Functions are inside WF right now (re @cvictorovich: But functions can be located right inside WF) [13:06:22] Names is the way I know to find functions right now (re @cvictorovich: At the moment functions cannot be located by names...) [13:06:40] Oh maybe my data is outdated [13:06:49] How do you find functions? [13:09:37] By ZObject ID [13:09:53] If I don't know, then catalog [13:10:19] All objects [13:15:03] The ID tells nothing of what the functions is or does (re @cvictorovich: By ZObject ID) [13:15:52] The catalogue is good but quite crude, actually I'd something to help to update the catalogue [13:20:45] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:ListObjectsByType/Z8?uselang=fr then find in/on page? [13:22:44] Details? (re @Nicolas: The catalogue is good but quite crude, actually I'd something to help to update the catalogue) [13:25:01] I added links ☝️ (re @Nikki: I don't know what ssot or tbox mean) [13:31:15] For instance, a lot of functions are not in the catalogue yet, how to find them ? (re @cvictorovich: Details?) [13:33:12] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:ListObjectsByType/Z8?uselang=fr then find in/on page? (re @Nicolas: For instance, a lot of functions are not in the catalogue yet, how to find them ?) [13:33:19] I'd like to ask "something to help" (re @Nicolas: For instance, a lot of functions are not in the catalogue yet, how to find them ?) [13:33:26] Robots? [13:33:48] Right now, I'm starting having trouble just finding the functions I created myself 🙃 how could I find other functions (eg. similar ones to compare what I'm doing to what other people do) [13:34:16] In your own contribs? (re @Nicolas: Right now, I'm starting having trouble just finding the functions I created myself 🙃 how could I find other functions (eg. simil...) [13:35:02] You may locate there [13:35:23] We don't need robot yet, we need structure first: tagging category whatever floats (which will be needed by robot later anyway) (re @cvictorovich: Robots?) [13:35:59] I've got too much contributions and they are too similar to easily find anything (re @cvictorovich: In your own contribs?) [13:37:28] Are functions determining group of French verbs ready now? [13:41:02] Exactly what I'm talking about! [13:41:03] If you don't give me an ID or a link, how can I find this function? (if it even exists) (re @cvictorovich: Are functions determining group of French verbs ready now?) [13:41:27] Let me work on them... [13:41:43] But the 2e question, no solution [13:42:02] Except by viewing all objects [13:43:43] I already have ~100 functions for Breton (and at least 10 times more to create), a simple list is not good enough (re @cvictorovich: Except by viewing all objects) [13:44:29] I will definitely assist you (re @Nicolas: I already have ~100 functions for Breton (and at least 10 times more to create), a simple list is not good enough) [13:44:43] And reduce some of your workloads [13:46:25] the workload is high for 2 reasons: [13:46:26] - natural langage are complex (especially Breton), nothing much to do here [13:46:27] - I cant easily keep track of what functions exists or not, here we need to improve Wikifunctions (re @cvictorovich: And reduce some of your workloads) [13:46:58] Breton... Is it irregular? (re @Nicolas: the workload is high for 2 reasons: [13:46:59] - natural langage are complex (especially Breton), nothing much to do here [13:47:00] - I cant easily k...) [13:47:09] I know little about it [13:47:10] highly (re @cvictorovich: Breton... Is it irregular?) [13:47:28] and very lectal also [13:47:36] Wait... Do we have existing conjugation table? [13:48:32] I started to create them : https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Catalogue#For_Breton_verbs (just the unmutated forms which is mostly useless to construct a sentence) (re @cvictorovich: Wait... Do we have existing conjugation table?) [13:49:05] I might as well work on Breton lexeme on Wikidata [13:49:25] I still need to create ~30 functions for the missing conjugation and then triple this function for mutation [13:49:26] so much to do, so little time [13:50:07] @cvictorovich I can't find any function for "finding the group of a French verb", did you start anything yet? [13:50:38] Nope. In fact I'm curious if somebody has started (re @Nicolas: @cvictorovich I can't find any function for "finding the group of a French verb", did you start anything yet?) [13:51:25] Nikki has opinion that we should create discrete functions: "does a verb belong to 1e group?" etc. [13:52:03] ok, I'll do it (and I hope I'll will not create a duplicate) (re @cvictorovich: Nope. In fact I'm curious if somebody has started) [13:52:30] yes, I agree (and a meta function "find the group" composed of the subfunctions) (re @cvictorovich: Nikki has opinion that we should create discrete functions: "does a verb belong to 1e group?" etc.) [13:54:48] No, let me (re @Nicolas: ok, I'll do it (and I hope I'll will not create a duplicate)) [13:56:38] I'm doing right now [13:57:03] too late, I did it already : https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/fr/Z12437 (re @cvictorovich: No, let me) [13:57:15] Well [13:57:32] We created duplicates... [13:57:44] Z12436 [13:59:24] Almost the same time [14:00:05] The moment you told me did I find out collision has happened [14:02:28] I asked for the deletion of my duplicate: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Requests_for_deletions#Duplicate [14:03:06] This is another severe problem: [14:03:23] I have to run some errands, I'll let you create the test and implementations [14:04:16] How can we know a function has been created? [14:04:28] (In different names! [14:05:01] exactly my point, and this is a subproblem of "how to find a function" (re @cvictorovich: How can we know a function has been created?) [14:05:19] This could have happened before without being detected! [14:15:26] Very strange behavior with different results from call `is_snake_case` _function_ (Z10324) and its _implementation_ (Z10330) 😮 [14:15:27] [14:15:29] 1. Run function: Z10324 (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10324) [14:15:30] Try this function [14:15:32] Enter inputs [14:15:33] value: [14:15:35] ``` [14:15:36] my_string``` [14:15:38] [14:15:39] Result: [14:15:41] ``` [14:15:42] false``` [14:15:44] [14:15:45] [14:15:47] 2. Run implementation: Z10330 (https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z10330) [14:15:48] Try this function [14:15:50] Enter inputs [14:15:51] value: [14:15:53] ``` [14:15:54] my_string``` [14:15:56] [14:15:57] Result: [14:15:59] ``` [14:16:00] true``` [14:16:02] [14:16:03] [14:16:05] Am i don't understand something? This is normal? 🤔 [14:16:07] [14:16:09] Talk about this: [14:16:11] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Talk:Z10324 [14:31:18] I tried and I confirm, this is very weird [14:31:18] ping @vrandecic is it a known bug? (re @Channel_Bot: Very strange behavior with different results from call is_snake_case function (Z10324) and its implementation (Z10330) 😮 [14:31:20] [14:31:21] 1. Run...) [14:32:26] yes, [14:32:27] there is (was?) a small number of function, so most duplicates should have been detected, but it will become more and more problematic in the future (re @cvictorovich: This could have happened before without being detected!) [14:33:04] FYI, I look at the detail and it's the same (including " function-orchestrator-main-orchestrator-5f8dd554db-mjns9") (re @Nicolas: I tried and I confirm, this is very weird [14:33:05] ping @vrandecic is it a known bug?) [14:36:38] But test case with exactly input is passed! 🤷🏻‍♂️ [14:36:38] https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z12443 (re @Channel_Bot: Very strange behavior with different results from call is_snake_case function (Z10324) and its implementation (Z10330) 😮 [14:36:39] [14:36:41] 1. Run...) [14:40:13] yes, the bug is on the function level only (re @Channel_Bot: But test case with exactly input is passed! 🤷🏻‍♂️ [14:40:14] https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z12443) [14:40:40] I know there has been some inconsistency bug like that (I thought they were solved tho) [14:41:12] Do Wikifunctions have a public API? [14:41:12] [14:41:14] Like this, but from my server, not from Wikimedia project: [14:41:15] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WikiLambda/API [14:44:54] Does Wikifunctions roadmap has task for provide `JSON-LD` (and other `RDF` serializations) API? [14:44:54] [14:44:56] With simple GET-request like it's implement in Wikidata already: [14:44:57] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42 [14:44:59] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityData/Q42.jsonld [14:49:17] There is all Wikifunctions tasks has `abstract_wikipedia_team` tag? [14:49:18] [14:49:20] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/