[11:41:56] I can’t think where I would use such a function myself, but it’s worth a discussion. Z876 is another function that calls a given function iteratively, accumulating the results. I’ve used it in Z13303 to test Z13254. (re @Toby: Thanks, I've filed this at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T357858) [11:46:26] Oh, I missed that because it preceded so wasn't included in the announcement of list objects and associated functions. Thanks for creating a test case so I can understand how it works. (re @Al: I can’t think where I would use such a function myself, but it’s worth a discussion. Z876 is another function that calls a given...) [11:51:40] Yes, I’m checking https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:ListObjectsByType/Z8 for others to add to the catalogue. (re @Toby: Thanks. I missed that because it preceded so wasn't included in the announcement of list objects and associated inbuilt function...) [12:22:56] This is almost equivalent to my setup of Z12781, so a ~working composition was easy: Z13305. Thanks again. (re @Al: I can’t think where I would use such a function myself, but it’s worth a discussion. Z876 is another function that calls a given...) [12:30:17] Okay [12:31:17] The orchestrator seems to struggle with reducing all but the shortest of lists, so I’m not sure how useful it is currently is in practice 🤷‍♂️ (re @Toby: This is almost equivalent to my setup of Z12781, so a ~working composition was easy: Z13305. Thanks again.) [13:03:08] 5468 [14:43:43] A list of uncatalogued functions: [14:43:44] [14:43:46] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions_talk:Catalogue [14:54:47] I just discovered by accident that if you click on one of the languages in the popup that appears when clicking the languages button at the bottom of the "about" box, you can edit the values for that language. that wasn't at all clear to me [14:55:30] I had been clicking around trying to find out how to do that and that was at least the second time I opened that dialog, I just happened to accidentally click in the right place [14:56:15] I clicked the pencil icon originally, which confusingly opened an empty form which didn't include the information that was being shown to me [14:56:36] and clicking the language dropdown didn't show any other languages either [15:00:59] I also lost my changes by accidentally clicking outside the dialog [15:01:55] I have absolutely no idea what the "Input 1 label (optional)" field is for [15:01:57] very useful (and I didn't forget to catalogue any Breton function, oof ; but I see some Croatian functions ping @vrandecic ;) ) (re @Al: A list of uncatalogued functions: [15:01:58] [15:01:59] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions_talk:Catalogue) [15:08:54] and I'm confused by the numbers under these fields : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/854dd7c0/file_57626.jpg [15:09:09] my first thought when looking at the -2 was that it was saying I'd removed 2 characters, but then after I reopened the dialog it said -2 even before I changed anything [15:10:01] then I saw the 82 and thought maybe it was the length of the text, then counted the letters and realised it's nowhere near long enough for that [15:10:17] Aren’t those 100 - length? (re @Nikki: my first thought when looking at the -2 was that it was saying I'd removed 2 characters, but then after I reopened the dialog it...) [15:14:10] it seems so, yeah. I did eventually realise it's supposed to be something minus the current number of characters after thinking about what else it could be trying to represent, but I don't know what the significance of 100 is if it's not the maximum length [15:15:44] (it says -2 before I change anything, so 100 is clearly not the maximum length :P) [15:17:16] 🤷‍♂️ A guideline or soft limit rather than a rule or hard limit? [15:47:19] i'll try to share the design rational behind the current design approach Nikki (in separate messages), but i'd be happy to iterate on those if this is not enough [15:49:47] we currently hint this via the hover state + the cursor change (from default to pointer, similarly to when you hover a button). we're building on top of what codex provides (re @Nikki: I just discovered by accident that if you click on one of the languages in the popup that appears when clicking the languages bu...) [15:52:51] the original intention is to let you edit the current langauge via the pencil icon, and consult (and edit) all the other languages via the language button at the bottom of the same box. the form should be empty only when you create a new object. did this happen on an existing object too? if yes, that sounds like a but (re @Nikki: I clicked the pencil icon originally, which confus [15:52:52] ingly opened an empty form which didn't include the information that was being...) [15:53:40] yes, this is a known issue, we're working on having better default, and better suggestions when you focus a language (or object) selector, you're totally right! (re @Nikki: and clicking the language dropdown didn't show any other languages either) [15:56:34] those are the input labels for the function definition arguments. rather than having to go through the whole list if you would click on "Edit source" we thought of giving a shortcut for quickly editing (or translating) those labels : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/1208ce74/file_57628.jpg [15:58:22] same as here : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/c5c3a70f/file_57629.jpg [16:00:10] yeah, you're right! the -2 is a (soft) character count that we introduced after some of the labels have been already given, this is why some of the objects are 102 or more character long 🫠 (re @Nikki: (it says -2 before I change anything, so 100 is clearly not the maximum length :P)) [16:02:17] having something only distinguishable on hover isn't a good idea - it took me a while to discover it when using a mouse because I didn't have the cursor in the right place, and I don't know how people using a touchscreen device or keyboard would discover it (I can't even get to it using the keyboard >_<) (re @internetam1n: we currently hint this via the hover state + the cursor c [16:02:18] hange (from default to pointer, similarly to when you hover a button). ...) [16:03:00] it's usually ok for buttons because they have a distinct appearance, the problem with the dialog is that it's indistinguishable from plain text without hovering [16:03:47] that is a very good feedback, i fo agree! [16:06:31] ohhh! I was interpreting it as telling me I can input exactly 1 label (but there's already a field for that, so it didn't make sense). something like "label for input 1" would have been a lot clearer to me 😅 (re @internetam1n: those are the input labels for the function definition arguments. rather than having to go through the whole list if you would c...) [16:08:20] Ah, yes… identical forms for nouns and verbs, how very anglophone! (re @Nikki: ohhh! I was interpreting it as telling me I can input exactly 1 label (but there's already a field for that, so it didn't make s...) [16:13:09] it didn't help that the function I was looking at only has one input. it's a bit easier to realise what it means in that screenshot (especially because it would have been "2 labels" the way I was interpreting it) [16:13:55] yeah, nonetheless that is a valid point to improve the copy [16:14:32] yeah, something I'm painfully familiar with from bad german translations of things 😅 (re @Al: Ah, yes… identical forms for nouns and verbs, how very anglophone!) [16:16:04] (although the one that was most memorable to me was a synonym problem, rather than a noun/verb problem... it was a button labelled "retten" (rescue) instead of "speichern" (store) and I had to translate it back to english to realise it originally said "save") [16:18:48] i also wanted to take a second to thank you Nikki. i do value your direct, precise, and actionable feedback, A LOT! i'll try to digest everything you shared so far, and file things as needed on phab. i'll try to stay on top of it, but if there's anything that is particularly annoying, and that is taking a long time to be fixed, please feel free to ping me! 🙏 [16:44:25] This one is odd… Z13256 All the tests always fail on “Edit source” with no details and will never pass on refresh. I’ll raise a bug tomorrow if there’s no simple explanation. : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/4900f3ba/file_57631.jpg [17:48:17] @vrandecic I think the Croatian ones are hiding behind the links in the “*regular inflections of nouns*“ table, so there isn’t an explicit reference to the ZID on the page. I’ll add links in the source Wikitext to my inputs. (re @Nicolas: very useful (and I didn't forget to catalogue any Breton function, oof ; but I see some Croatian functions ping @vrandecic ;) )) [18:19:48] odd indeed. unrelated question: did you happen to open the desktop version on mobile just for the screenshot or is that your go-to mode? (re @Al: This one is odd… Z13256 All the tests always fail on “Edit source” with no details and will never pass on refresh. I’ll raise a ...) [18:19:49] It’s my go-to mode. [18:23:36] is there anything missing in the mobile view that you wished you had? or something else? (re @Al: It’s my go-to mode.) [18:32:11] I can’t zoom out to see the whole page in mobile view. No sidebars. And the code editing window seems even less usable in mobile view (but I haven’t actually tried using it yet). [18:51:49] To clarify… All my contributions to Wikifunctions have been made using an iPhone 12 mini. The major problem editing code in desktop view is getting hold of the […] button for copy and paste. [22:37:47] I'm also seeing inconsistent evaluation between the page and the edit source page at Z10002. I just filed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T357939. Feel free to add yours to it and generalise it if you think it's the same issue. (re @Al: This one is odd… Z13256 All the tests always fail on “Edit source” with no details and will never pass on refresh. I’ll raise a ...) [22:47:27] Thanks, Toby. It’s almost like that is the logical inverse of my problem, so they may very well be related. I had probably better report mine separately and let the developers link them if they think they’re connected 🫤 (re @Toby: I'm also seeing inconsistent evaluation between the page and the edit source page at Z10002. I just filed https://phabricator.wi...) [23:19:36] Thanks for this hot tip. I've now successfully made a composition of this for Z13318. I'll try to convince you that it has uses! (re @Al: I can’t think where I would use such a function myself, but it’s worth a discussion. Z876 is another function that calls a given...) [23:23:54] 😎 No need to try too hard… I’ll know where to look when I feel the need emerging! (re @Toby: Thanks for this hot tip. I've now successfully made a composition of this for Z13318. I'll try to convince you that it has uses!)