[06:20:23] 🤔 Be careful what you wish for https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Type_proposals/Multilingual_gloss (re @vrandecic: we just should use Z-IDs...) [07:34:34] great that wikifunctions dark mode works out of the box, much better than wikidata : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/92bd1e21/file_61807.jpg [07:40:21] great that wikifunction's dark mode work out of the box, unlike wikidata(I've enabled a beta feature, indeed I expect breakage but I just wanted to thank wikifunctions design) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/a9de121a/file_61808.jpg [10:58:31] thank you! that's the benefit of using the codex design system 🙂 we'll automatically inherit all improvments and updates. if you encounter anything that feels off in dark more, feel free to ping me. i'd be happy to forward your feedback to the web team! (re @ebraminio: great that wikifunction's dark mode works out of the box, unlike wikidata [10:58:31] (I've enabled a beta feature plus a small script to o...) [11:36:13] The page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Product_%26_Technology_OKRs says: "By the end of Q2, enable Wikifunctions calls on at least one smaller language Wikipedia to provide a more scalable way to seed new content." [11:36:13] Does this mean that if all goes well, then in January 2025 it will be possible to write a function called Z8765432 on wikifunctions.org, then write something like `{{#call:Z8765432}}` on a page in qqf.wikipedia.org, and the output of the function will be interpreted similarly to the output of a Lua module or a template? [11:36:15] (Replace qqf with the code of the one smaller language that you choose, and `{{#call` with whatever syntax you choose.) [11:58:48] It has been bad for me ever since and maybe progressively worse. I just timed a couple of pages on Windows / Chrome, and a function page took 30seconds to load, and recentchanges took 70s to load. My speed test on this is currently 38Mb/s down and 18Mb/s up. The task manager didn't go to 100% in any category. The function also loaded slowly on Edge while logged out with [11:58:48] no other [11:58:48] applications running. What else should I check? (re @Toby: Anyone else experiencing unusually slow page load times today?) [12:09:10] 15 seconds of a blank page, 7 seconds of "This page displays in a limited way without JavaScript. [12:09:10] This page requires JavaScript to be used.", and 10+ seconds of "Loading data" (sometimes very long). (re @Toby: It has been bad for me ever since and maybe progressively worse. I just timed a couple of pages on Windows / Chrome, and a funct...) [12:21:41] Vietnamese o with a hat and an accent looks bad in titles, but okay in strings. : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/792ec1e9/file_61830.jpg [12:22:30] both at Z17088 : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/495422a8/file_61831.jpg [12:24:13] You’re using Vector 2022, presumably? I haven’t seen the JavaScript message in a lonnnnnnggg time 🤔 (re @Toby: 15 seconds of a blank page, 7 seconds of "This page displays in a limited way without JavaScript. [12:24:13] This page requires JavaScript...) [12:24:15] for me both show the same so I can assume it's font related : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/0e7f5fd8/file_61832.jpg [12:29:23] I've no idea. How do I tell? (re @Al: You’re using Vector 2022, presumably? I haven’t seen the JavaScript message in a lonnnnnnggg time 🤔) [12:30:33] (not that it isn't important just the main issue is in fonts I can say) (re @ebraminio: for me both show the same so I can assume it's font related at your specific OS) [12:31:52] https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering (re @Toby: I've no idea. How do I tell?) [12:32:46] Thanks, yes, Vector (2022) (re @Al: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering) [12:37:27] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/77ff21ad/file_61833.jpg [12:37:28] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/bd5333d2/file_61834.jpg [12:38:08] https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/4b096051/file_61835.jpg [12:39:56] more specifically the issue is georgia doesn't have that vietnamese character thus fallbacks to times for the missing characters and solution can be change of fonts which I assume is unlikely to happen [12:43:19] It’s fine on iOS (Safari, Chrome and Opera) [12:50:57] This is for recentchanges : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/842786c2/file_61836.jpg [12:56:38] This is for Z17081 (and it still hasn't finished) : https://tools-static.wmflabs.org/bridgebot/ce4b0993/file_61837.jpg [15:15:12] Yes, if all goes well, that would be the outcome (re @amire80: The page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Product_%26_Technology_OKRs says: "By the en...) [17:03:24] I've just made up the `{{#call:Z8765432}}` syntax in my message above. Is it known what will the syntax be? Is it perhaps already usable in wikitext on wikifunctions.org and I didn't notice? [18:15:52] I think it’s planned for the coming quarter. It would be nice if the “#call” word would be configurable (the label for Z7, perhaps). Ignoring technical considerations, how do you feel about directions other than right to left? (re @amire80: I've just made up the {{#call:Z8765432}} syntax in my message above. Is it known what will the syntax be? Is it perhaps already ...) [18:18:28] …I mean left to right 🙄 [18:19:16] We have a design task for the upcoming quarter to figure out the syntax. [18:47:20] I see that Scribunto's `{{#invoke` was never translated into Hebrew, and it's not a big deal. It would perhaps be useful to write it in the Hebrew letters, which would be more easily readable and wouldn't create RTL issues, but I can't recall anyone in the Hebrew Wikipedia complaining about it. [18:47:49] It's not used much (if at all) in the article space. It's mostly used in the template space by engineering-oriented users. [18:48:45] (Lots of people rightly complained about the inability to localize the `` tag, which is used a lot in the article space and creates a lot of RTL issues.) [18:54:48] I hope that Wikifunctions will be much more widely used, ultimately more frequently than templates currently are. [18:59:25] Magic words like `{{#invoke` are translated by editing the ExtensionName.magic.php file. It's not very accessible to casual editors who want to translate, but it's probably not a problem because it should be stable, and shouldn't be too easy to change and break lots of things. [19:00:38] I'd say that titles of most particular functions can be editable and translatable by everyone, especially if changing a title or a translation leaves a redirect, like moving a usual wiki page does. [19:00:48] Highly-used functions should probably be protected. [19:01:09] And magic words probably shouldn't be easily editable or translatable by everyone, but there are very few of them. [19:01:56] (Last time I checked, changing a translation doesn't leave a redirect ;) [19:13:18] We only need to avoid conflicts with existing syntax. It could be as simple as {{:f: …}} or even [[:f: …]]. I don’t know whether any design constraints have been identified, but it would be a strange proposal that couldn’t be implemented through a template on the calling Wiki, if that’s how its community preferred to do it. (re @amire80: And magic words probably shouldn [19:13:18] [19:13:19] 't be easily editable or translatable by everyone, but there are very few of them.) [19:15:00] The problem with doing it through a template is that a template is always a template. It's not a function call, or a math formula, or an Egyptian hieroglyphs text. All the templates are the same kind of object to the parser, and consequently, to Visual editor. [19:16:09] So if there is any special functionality for functions, the Visual editor won't see it if you insert it through template transclusion syntax. [19:17:19] Curiously, VE treats invocations of Scribunto modules kind of like templates, which is not quite right because they aren't the same. In practice, it's not a big problem because they are rarely used directly in articles. [19:17:48] Is there an intention to use functions directly in articles? If there is, they should be directly accessible to VE. [19:18:02] Yes, I don’t expect templates to be the answer, I just expect that functions can be called from templates. (re @amire80: So if there is any special functionality for functions, the Visual editor won't see it if you insert it through template transcl...) [19:19:22] Well, that’s certainly my intention! (re @amire80: Is there an intention to use functions directly in articles? If there is, they should be directly accessible to VE.) [19:19:31] (I don't know what was the _intention_ for modules either. It just somehow happened in practice that modules are mostly invoked from templates and not directly from content-space wiki pages.) [19:22:17] Why? (re @Al: Well, that’s certainly my intention!) [19:24:13] Because Wikifunctions supports Abstract Wikipedia and Abstract Wikipedia is encyclopedic content delivered by functions. (re @amire80: Why?) [21:10:31] It's a bit weird to talk about it in the present tense, but OK :) (re @Al: Because Wikifunctions supports Abstract Wikipedia and Abstract Wikipedia is encyclopedic content delivered by functions.) [23:57:59] "they are rarely used directly in articles" -- would you happen to know whether that's consistent across language editions? I know it to be true in enwp and I think also dewp, but what about smaller projects? (re @amire80: Curiously, VE treats invocations of Scribunto modules kind of like templates, which is not quite right because they aren't the s...)