[00:29:39] [1/2] I want to make a custom special page to basically provide a custom search that's designed for sorting through thousands of pages with no prior knowledge. To my understanding this means making an entire extension, however I don't have the means to test it off-site because I don't have the resources to run mediawiki software. What are my options? [00:29:39] [2/2] (technically my aim is a more user-friendly version of semantic search if it helps) [00:30:55] or, are there alternatives to using special pages to achieve what I'm trying to do? [00:38:04] bc basically want I want to have on my wiki is something like Special:Search_by_property with the robustness of Special:Semantic_search, where you don't have to put in scary code to search multiple properties [00:39:47] oh shit I just discovered semantic drilldown [00:40:19] ⁉️ [00:41:30] Exciting stuff! Unfortunately we don't allow untested/in-development extensions to run on WikiTide, I think your best bet if you can't find an existing extension that meets needs would be to set up a personal test environment on your own recognizance. [00:42:29] well semantic drilldown looks like it does exactly what I want and would be a lot better [00:42:31] While some here might be able to provide some limited help on that effort, the MediaWiki discord server would have a greater pool of knowledge to pull from. [00:42:46] Oh good! [00:43:00] AND it doesn't look like it requires composer! [00:43:06] Even better! [00:43:34] I'm gonna request it immediately [00:53:57] https://issue-tracker.wikitide.org/T56 [00:56:32] You could also maybe consider trying to use DPL with an input for parameters [00:57:55] I cannot emphasize enough how much I want to avoid using dpl [00:59:05] I'd have to re-add all the categories-used-as-bootleg-smw-properties that I removed, shivers [00:59:46] cc @cosmicalpha for review ^ [01:01:09] I am not going back to this [01:04:04] smw is so superior to dpl that it isn't even funny [01:23:52] what in the sweet and sour butternut fuck is that [01:26:18] Static testing of multiple variables, if I'm reading it right. [01:26:30] The sagan4 use case is... very involved. [01:43:33] this seems like it could be a very easy module [01:51:05] now we just use semantic mediawiki to boil things like that down to a single property containing a comma-separated list [01:52:26] well, we haven't actually done that with habitats yet [01:52:42] but the thing is that the habitat categories were literally never useful [01:55:25] the guy who set up the wiki in 2007 had this cool idea to automate the ecosystem page using properties on species pages, and it fell apart immediately because of all the "edge cases" that were actually shockingly common that were literally the original reason the ecosystem page is updated independently of species pages [01:57:55] the shockingly common "edge cases" being habitat entropy [02:00:41] I made up that word just now but it's a well known fact that the longer a species has been around, the more disconnected its current habitat will be from its original one due to mild shuffling that happens any time the map updates [02:02:08] the few surviving species that were in the "rocky" biome in 2006 are now in modern Drake Tundra for example, which is on a different continent halfway across the planet [02:04:37] [1/2] as over time the frigid rocky mountain biome ended up getting pushed north until it was right up against some newly formed taiga that the rocky species got spread into, and then taiga was split into taiga, tundra, and polar scrub to fix a science error (as the map maker had wrongly assumed all polar biomes are taiga), and then that same tundra just stuck around until the moder [02:04:38] [2/2] n day [02:08:17] even in 2007 a lot of shifting around had already occurred; the wiki was made after a major biome overhaul, since originally the only biomes were hydrothermal vents, deep ocean, ocean, shallows, beach, inland, inland forest, and rocky, which everyone agreed was dumb [02:09:09] [1/2] Always cool when long-running projects develop this level of depth to their lore and technical history. [02:09:10] [2/2] Thanks for taking the time to share. 😄 [04:07:57] i lost my phone with the authenticator app so there's no way i would be able to log in to my wiki account [04:14:16] Do you have any device where you're still logged in? [04:15:07] nope, i'm logged out from all my devices [04:17:54] Thanks. Will reach out to SREs to see how we can proceed... [04:29:21] Sent an email to the address on file with an authorization code, please reply in DMs with that code to proceed with reset [04:32:36] hmm, i can't dm you for some reason [04:33:43] Fixed [04:41:56] Please try logging in now [05:36:10] yes, it works! [06:01:57] Uh and I just noticed something: the first time I enable PageProperties, I didn't get the proper permissions for that extension at the time I enabled it, that's why in a long time I still can't edit properties with it untils I give my group permissions. [19:51:01] on quick search I noticed cosmicalpha hasn't actually said anything in chat in months should I be concerned [19:52:26] nope [19:52:31] he works in the shadows [19:52:33] aka backend [19:52:41] ah [22:13:04] I'm just wondering how long it might take for my extension request to get looked at and stuff [22:13:30] It's almost insane how useful it will be based on what it allows on the Naruto wiki [22:14:18] It'll be looked at potentially tonight? [22:14:24] That pending + Swift migration [22:14:29] cc @cosmicalpha ^ [22:16:38] I've even been working on a list of new smw properties to add specifically with it in mind [22:20:21] [1/2] We mostly use smw to display very page-specific properties, like, say, the size of an organism and a list of its prey, on different pages, but it's less useful for the type of searching that semantic drilldown is for; thus I'm planning on adding new properties with standardized values designed specifically for it, for example a "food source" property that might list "meat, veg [22:20:21] [2/2] etation, fruit" instead of the specific species that are eaten--because when searching, those generic properties are a lot more useful [22:28:21] Ill get to review tonight [23:09:43] [1/2] SMW also limits to amount of concurrent request so you can't accidentally cause DDOSes on large categories on big wikis. [23:09:43] [2/2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T263220 [23:09:52] (the execution time is now limited but it's still somewhat of an issue) [23:11:13] hehe, there's a page on the sagan 4 wiki that barely worked when written in cargo, and before we had the ability to rewrite it entirely in smw we briefly tried using dpl and long story short the page crashed the wiki when accessed [23:11:57] it loaded in like 5 seconds tops when I redid it in smw [23:12:20] I guess accidentally ddosing ourselves is exactly what happened [23:14:19] it was a gallery of over a thousand species in chronological order, which used cargo, and now smw, to load it all [23:17:08] I always assumed it was the images that were the problem until switching to smw [23:18:05] it's too bad smw's code is too atrocious for most devs to touch bc simply put nothing as good as it exists [23:18:36] they just don't make extensions the same way these days [23:19:26] a gallery of a thousand images?? [23:19:40] people wanted a visual of every species [23:19:45] oh my god [23:19:47] then they never actually used the page 😛 [23:20:00] so it's just sitting there [23:20:09] performing way better than it should in terms of loading [23:20:11] weird gloop says theyre working on bucket but i'm not sure if thats moving much [23:22:25] it was one of the failed early attempts at fixing sagan 4's navitation issues [23:23:26] species discoverability is one of the biggest issues preventing newcomers from joining the project [23:24:34] and people seem to do better looking at images than at text [23:24:57] which is why the home page now has this [23:25:09] showing random species at every opportunity [23:28:21] well, usually it's random species with a few parameters [23:28:51] eg. this from the sauceback page shows a different sauceback species on every refresh [23:30:37] and when viewing an extinct species, living relatives will be shown at the bottom of the page [23:31:03] the journey to making sagan 4 less of a pain to navigate has been a long one